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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4955573" data-attributes="member: 30678">I can see your point; it's not an uncommon concept in fantasy literature or contemporary RPGs to feature protagonists who're more powerful -- some of them even legendary (such as many manga books, for example). And therefore I'm not claiming computer or video games are the only influence which has "conditioned" people towards "instant gratification"; I do, however, believe that they're the biggest reason why some people are reluctant to play if you must start as a dirt-poor farmer's son taking his first steps on the road towards heroism. BTW, I tried to play 'God of War', but I found it to be quite frustrating... whatever buttons I kept hitting apparently mattered very little, as Kratos seemed to be handling the game for me (except for those "boss" or "elite" monsters that required a quick "combo" too fast for my poor old eyes and reflexes).Personally, I prefer the growth story; I've always found that playing out the whole process -- all the steps to glory and fame -- is ultimately far more satisfying than building and equipping a 15th or 20th level character straight from the books. And, in fantasy literature I also prefer the bildungsroman in which the protagonist(s) grow to become hero(es) as the story slowly progresses (BTW, even if myths feature superhuman protagonists, they're often flawed and tragic characters with ultimate weaknesses; something which D&D doesn't handle well). If I want to play superhumans right from the start, I think a lot of the superhero RPGs are a more natural fit than D&D (especially for playing Colossus <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). There *are* well-designed RPGs that feature mythical protagonists; Amber DRPG, Agon, and Nine Worlds are in my opinion all good examples of such games. They're more "narrativist", however, than "gamist", and power and glory in them often comes at a price. These are also games in which mythic or legendary items are often strongly part of the original character concept (Corwin's sword Grayswandir, for example) rather than typical magic item rewards, just as you said above (I'm all fine with that; we've had several Amber campaigns). In fact, personal items/worldss/allies/minions/etcetera are surprisingly often what Firelance calls "evolving rewards", i.e. they develop and grow in power as you do.While it may be true that it's more uncommon to have "farmer's-son-fulfilling-his-destiny" than a mythically powerful character as a protagonist in fantasy, many well-known series (e.g. LoTR, Eragon, and Wheel of Time) *do* portray "1st level" heroes as well (although undeniably exceptional and "destined-for-greatness"). However, except for Howard's stories (Kull and Conan), I cannot think of a mythically-powerful protagonist who wasn't a tragic figure ultimately brought down by his/her own hubris, flaw or betrayal (Elric, Achilles, Beowulf and so on).As I said, I can understand your point about being able to jump into the game -- this may be natural evolution for games in the contemporary society. However, I don't personally find it to be satisfactory or fun to be able to play Kratos or Samson or Thor right from the start. Different strokes and all, I guess.</blockquote>

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