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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Standing doesn't provoke an OA?
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<blockquote data-quote="JGulick" data-source="post: 4394477" data-attributes="member: 66409"><p>You're mixing the fluff text and the rules here, and that never makes finding a reasonable answer easier. Ignore the "letting its guard down" and look at the rules itself.</p><p></p><p>Warpriest's Challenge is a power. Powers can do just about anything they want, including granting OAs. The trigger for one of this power's effects is a shift, and the result of that trigger is an OA. Shift triggers power, power provides OA. A to B, B to C.</p><p></p><p>This is <em>not</em> an example of move provokes OA. It isn't A to C. And A to C is what is required for Combat Superiority to also be triggered.</p><p></p><p>This is just like saying "I push him to the bottom of the pit" when, in fact, you push him to the TOP of the pit and the Fall triggered by his being at the top of the pit moves him to the bottom of the pit. A to B, B to C. But A to C didn't happen, which is good because the rules forbid A to C while clearly allowing (and even having special save rules for) A to B to C.</p><p></p><p>IF Warpriest's Challenge said "This power changes the definition of Shifts so that, for you, Shifts by your Marked Target Provoke OA," then you would be right. But that isn't what it says. Instead, it provides a special new source of OAs, a Shift or Attack not against you by the marked target.</p><p></p><p>WC provides the OA, not the Shift. The shift is the trigger for WC.</p><p></p><p>Eliding cause and effect chains like you're doing here doesn't work. Does someone under Divine Challenge damage himself by doing an attack not targeting the Paladin? No. They do the attack, which triggers DC, which does the damage. A triggers B, B causes C. To say A causes C would lead to several interesting mistakes.</p><p></p><p>It's no more correct here than there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JGulick, post: 4394477, member: 66409"] You're mixing the fluff text and the rules here, and that never makes finding a reasonable answer easier. Ignore the "letting its guard down" and look at the rules itself. Warpriest's Challenge is a power. Powers can do just about anything they want, including granting OAs. The trigger for one of this power's effects is a shift, and the result of that trigger is an OA. Shift triggers power, power provides OA. A to B, B to C. This is [i]not[/i] an example of move provokes OA. It isn't A to C. And A to C is what is required for Combat Superiority to also be triggered. This is just like saying "I push him to the bottom of the pit" when, in fact, you push him to the TOP of the pit and the Fall triggered by his being at the top of the pit moves him to the bottom of the pit. A to B, B to C. But A to C didn't happen, which is good because the rules forbid A to C while clearly allowing (and even having special save rules for) A to B to C. IF Warpriest's Challenge said "This power changes the definition of Shifts so that, for you, Shifts by your Marked Target Provoke OA," then you would be right. But that isn't what it says. Instead, it provides a special new source of OAs, a Shift or Attack not against you by the marked target. WC provides the OA, not the Shift. The shift is the trigger for WC. Eliding cause and effect chains like you're doing here doesn't work. Does someone under Divine Challenge damage himself by doing an attack not targeting the Paladin? No. They do the attack, which triggers DC, which does the damage. A triggers B, B causes C. To say A causes C would lead to several interesting mistakes. It's no more correct here than there. [/QUOTE]
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Standing doesn't provoke an OA?
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