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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shaman" data-source="post: 1924374" data-attributes="member: 26473">jodyjohnson, I think I understand what you're getting at, and I humbly suggest that the folks jumping up and down on you step back for a moment and take a breath.If I understand what you're saying, you would prefer that your players were more like Beowulf - grab a sword, go into the monster's lair, and battle with Grendel - and less like the "normal" D&D hero - draw a +5 flaming bursting vorpal sword, wait for the cleric to cast bless and bull's strength, the druid to cast barkskin, and the wizard to cast greater invisibility on said hero, allow the rogue to sneak into a flanking position in the shadows in the lair, go into the monster's lair, and kill poor Grendel with a critical before he knows what hit him.Would that be a correct summary?This is not an uncommon problem - in fact, there is <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/fb/20040608a" target="_blank">an article on the d20 Modern website</a> all about this phenomenon.I agree that what passes for "heroic fantasy" in D&D is a genre all its own - it's one of the reasons I don't really play D&D anymore, except with a pretty select group of like-minded people. Many players approach D&D like it's a SWAT exercise, so I'd rather play d20 Modern or Mutants and Masterminds where this sort of meta-thinking is more palatable and closer to the genre, and where I don't mind thinking in these terms myself in my role as the GM.It may be playing "smart," it may be using all the tools available in the system, and it is thoroughly endorsed by the current crop of designers (as evidenced by the sequence of buffs listed for just about every NPC in any given published adventure), but I don't care for it either, jodyjohnson - IMHO it robs heroic fantasy of its heroism and turns it into a tactical exercise, and for that I have other game systems.I personally don't limit characters options in quite the same way to achieve this end - for example, I use alternate magic systems so that sequences of buff spells simply aren't available and I utilize story awards including roleplaying bonuses in place of XP for monsters "overcome" (=killed).I don't know if any of this was helpful or not, but I hope it was. Good luck in capturing that elusive feel of heroic fantasy!</blockquote>

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