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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 1926110" data-attributes="member: 5590">Some background to fill in the details:A group of friends:  Gestalt (versatile), 32 pt. buy (higher power), Armor Damage conversion (less lethal), Greyhawk campaign.  House rules run 10 pages.  Discussions as a group tend towards wanting more role-play, more novel/movie-like action, faster play, limited prep-time; must be DnD.  The faster play aspect gets more difficult as the levels go up due to IMO excessive buffing (spell tracking), over-reliance on melee over AE damage (prolonging minor combats), over-developed spell combos (agonizing over spell selection), and using indirect spells exclusively instead of damage spells (debuffing creatures to death).The group of friends:DM since 1981, power-gamer>role-player looking to move the campaign a bit more towards the role-play side (but not completely).  (Also player of primarily Wizards/Clerics).  Rules-lawyer.Player1 since the 80s, RP>PG.  Was the DM's Best Man.  Been playing together at least 8 years.  Character:  Paladin/Cleric.  Main Medic. LGPlayer2 since the late 80s, PG>RP.  Been playing together at least 6 years.  Character:  Fighter/Prestige Bard.  Prime tank.  Skill guy.  NPlayer3 since the 90s, RP>PG.  Newest member at around 6 years.  Character:  Ranger/Wizard.  Primary nuker.  LNJust hit 9th level last week and I'm hoping the campaign makes it to epic.  We've had a couple campaigns go into the teens since 3.0 and my experience is that 'SWAT-team' style combat can really get out of hand in the next few levels (and I assume even more so at epic).Our Campaign house rules have 1.5 pages of alignment definitions followed by a half-page on Honor (which I made as easy to follow as possible), Surrender (surrender once is fine, if they come back they're dead), and Looting (nearly unrestricted looting with possible social consequences).  The "fairness" section gets a paragraph as part of a half-page on "Societal Norms, Expectations, and Laws" and says:How I defined Honor (as required by Paladins and Samurai)1.  Make a concerted effort to preserve your good/evil name. 2.  Fight fair.  Don't use overwhelming force or circumstances which give him or his allies an overwhelming advantage. Resist joining a 'fair' fight and resent others joining in a 'fair' fight he is in (For this purpose a 'fair' fight is a fight you think your side will win but might not).  Rather than 'piling on' to a foe already engaged, prefer to find an unopposed opponent.3.  Be brave but not stupid.4.  If you screw up - live by the consequences.5.  Observe the conventions of Duels/Challenges of HonorThe gist of Fairness as I currently understand it is (and I apply this to villains as well):1.  If you do something that makes you look bad, come up with an excuse to do it (even a flimsy/lame one - i.e. "He looked at me funny", or "Hey one of your guys attacked my outpost" - Hitler's excuse for invading Poland)2.  At least give a nod to fighting fair.  If a helpless opponent lies before you, give them the slightest chance to be rescued, spared, or surrender.  For examples of this see the 'Evil Overlord' list.3.  Metagame:  don't make an encounter lame by turning it into a one-sided hackfest4.  Metagame:  don't use killer-combos and super-tactics which completely exclude role-play from an encounterThe fairness clause has been in our house rules for years but recent incidents have lead me to believe that our group isn't on the same page regarding this.  In addition it recently dawned on me that my 'fairness' idea was a genre convention for me.My point in posting was:- Subject my initial list of examples regarding fairness to scrutiny.- Get input for other examples- Find out if other groups observed genre conventions (self-imposed or ingrained through carrot-and-stick, deliberately or unspoken)- Clarify my expectations for my group and hopefully generate a productive discussion of the fantasy genre- Establish a habit of play which will be sustainable through the teens and into the Epic level of the gameThe Shaman and Wizardru clarified what I was driving at.My initial influence to even codify 'fairness' was my experience of Realm v. Realm combat in the Dark Age of Camelot MMORPG.  All the trappings of DnD magic wrapped up in a mechanical quest for complete domination of the enemy.  The brutal efficiency of MMORPG play was increasingly evident in PnP as well.</blockquote>

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