Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Star Trek XI: Romulan Wars
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 1663765" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Everyone's tastes are different, of course. I started out by noting that I am obviously in the minority here. If you think, say, Season 3 of DS9 was better than Season 3 of Enterprise, well, that's your right. I'll agree that DS9 was strong <em>at the end</em>, but I personally found the beginning weak.</p><p></p><p>I am glad that you liked many of DS9's minor characters. Obviously, Dax was an extremely strong character for the series, and they also pulled in some from TNG, presumably for those of us who didn't think there was anything special about many of these characters.</p><p></p><p>I do agree that DS9 had some great stories. In fact, I will agree without hesitation that DS9 had the best time travel story in Star Trek history....well, at least to date. (No, not Trials and Tribblations, as good as that was, I refer to the story where Sisko ends up skipping through time and Jake grows old trying to rescue him. <em>That</em> was <em><strong>brilliant</strong></em>!) But, in my opinion only (perhaps literally mine only), Enterprise is better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There's a difference between constructive criticism and knee-jerk reaction. As I said, Enterprise has had some dog episodes. It has also had some very good episodes. The good outweigh the bad.</p><p></p><p>Star Trek often revisits themes, and has done so since the beginning. The episode, Sim, revisited an important theme from the Voyager episode, Tuvix. From an ethical standpoint alone, the Enterprise episode is better. There is a clear an imminent threat that prompts Archer to require Sim's death. Nothing substantial requires the same of Janeway. Sim's development and decision-making is shown over a series of scenes. Tuvix isn't given the same chance to protest. Tuvix is Sim-lite.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do believe that, while art is subjective, that there are objective standards as well. I know that I'm not going to convince anyone that Enterprise meets and exceeds those objective standards just on my say-so. But I do believe that this is the case. Off the top of my head, I can only think of 3-4 episodes in the first three seasons that fail by that standard, but I can easily think of more for any other Star Trek series. Which doesn't mean that there are no redeeming qualities for those particular episodes -- I quite like Spock's Brain -- but it does, I think, indicate that a lot more effort is being put into Enterprise than, say Voyager. And it shows.</p><p></p><p>Of course, people watch these programs for different reasons, and the reason you watch makes a pretty big difference as to what your opinion will be. Clearly, you may have some very specific ideas as to what <em>should</em> be presented. Allow me to suggest that those ideas might interfere with your objective analysis of what <em>is</em> being presented. Or, if not your analysis, at least the analysis of a hypothetical someone. I certainly found that my expectations interfered with my initial enjoyment of both the Star Wars prequel movies, and the LotR trilogy (I got over it).</p><p></p><p>Apart from not liking the characters (except, apparently, Phlox and T'Pol), what is it you don't like about Enterprise, anyway? Not enough slam-bam-zap-em-up action? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Happened in Enterprise already, in the first season. The episode where Trip gets pregnant.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 1663765, member: 18280"] Everyone's tastes are different, of course. I started out by noting that I am obviously in the minority here. If you think, say, Season 3 of DS9 was better than Season 3 of Enterprise, well, that's your right. I'll agree that DS9 was strong [I]at the end[/I], but I personally found the beginning weak. I am glad that you liked many of DS9's minor characters. Obviously, Dax was an extremely strong character for the series, and they also pulled in some from TNG, presumably for those of us who didn't think there was anything special about many of these characters. I do agree that DS9 had some great stories. In fact, I will agree without hesitation that DS9 had the best time travel story in Star Trek history....well, at least to date. (No, not Trials and Tribblations, as good as that was, I refer to the story where Sisko ends up skipping through time and Jake grows old trying to rescue him. [I]That[/I] was [I][B]brilliant[/B][/I]!) But, in my opinion only (perhaps literally mine only), Enterprise is better. There's a difference between constructive criticism and knee-jerk reaction. As I said, Enterprise has had some dog episodes. It has also had some very good episodes. The good outweigh the bad. Star Trek often revisits themes, and has done so since the beginning. The episode, Sim, revisited an important theme from the Voyager episode, Tuvix. From an ethical standpoint alone, the Enterprise episode is better. There is a clear an imminent threat that prompts Archer to require Sim's death. Nothing substantial requires the same of Janeway. Sim's development and decision-making is shown over a series of scenes. Tuvix isn't given the same chance to protest. Tuvix is Sim-lite. I do believe that, while art is subjective, that there are objective standards as well. I know that I'm not going to convince anyone that Enterprise meets and exceeds those objective standards just on my say-so. But I do believe that this is the case. Off the top of my head, I can only think of 3-4 episodes in the first three seasons that fail by that standard, but I can easily think of more for any other Star Trek series. Which doesn't mean that there are no redeeming qualities for those particular episodes -- I quite like Spock's Brain -- but it does, I think, indicate that a lot more effort is being put into Enterprise than, say Voyager. And it shows. Of course, people watch these programs for different reasons, and the reason you watch makes a pretty big difference as to what your opinion will be. Clearly, you may have some very specific ideas as to what [I]should[/I] be presented. Allow me to suggest that those ideas might interfere with your objective analysis of what [I]is[/I] being presented. Or, if not your analysis, at least the analysis of a hypothetical someone. I certainly found that my expectations interfered with my initial enjoyment of both the Star Wars prequel movies, and the LotR trilogy (I got over it). Apart from not liking the characters (except, apparently, Phlox and T'Pol), what is it you don't like about Enterprise, anyway? Not enough slam-bam-zap-em-up action? Happened in Enterprise already, in the first season. The episode where Trip gets pregnant. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Star Trek XI: Romulan Wars
Top