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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ankh-Morpork Guard" data-source="post: 3538120" data-attributes="member: 10079">If you can't tell, I love it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Technically, he defeated the first Darkwing(Shadow, that is) all by himself without outside help coming in. Jyren vs. Voort wasn't realy a win, per se, but he wasn't losing the entire fight, either. In fact, that fight was pretty much even. Also, Ket wasn't killed by outside help and, in fact, it was Jyren himself that ended that AFTER working with Marix the whole fight.Those were the important moments that Jyren was involved in(beyond the Jen thing, as that was gone over already). Each of them, he was definitely keeping up. If anything help him back in any(the latter two, especially) it was his own doubts or refusal to kill. Note that he came to the conclusion that he was not going to kill Voort. He was going to find another way to end it. He failed to. Then comes Jen, a similar situation...and he did find another way. He stopped fighting.Most of the times Jyren gets beaten down is when he's plowing through extremely dangerous mooks.  Its usually accompanied with him not TRYING to fight as much as trying to get somewhere, so his focus is on say...running. Most of them are also prolonged and, in a sense, its the attrition that wears him down more than the single fights.To be honest, Jyren does get a bad image on the thinking end of things. Despite the constant comments about him being an idiot, he does show that he can plan and act on those plans, and he does make some smart decisions many times over. Everyone says stupid things, some of us more than others. Jyren just has a habit of looking after he's leaped. Impulsive? Yeah. Stupid? Not really. He does consider consequences, its just that he does so very quickly and usually writes them off as not as important.Besides, it wasn't Marix, alone, that figured out what Ket was up to...or where Jen was going...etc. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think on this point it really is just a difference in point of view. I have no problem with sex in stories or anything like that. Its as much a part of life as anything else. But I don't believe that sex is the only way to show physical attraction or to show a physical relationship. There are instances throughout the entire story, long before Jyren and Marix started to accept things. For a person like Marix, who is very uncomfortable with any kind of physical contact beyond fighting, a hand on the shoulder is enough to send her into a panic...an embrace is even harder to really understand for her, and something as simple as a kiss even moreso.So seeing any of those things, especially when Marix is the one acting first, is a very strong sign of physical affection. Its not about being afraid to show sex or anything like that, its just that there is a relative difference in how people are. The signs of their affection are there through pretty much the entirety of the story, but its different than one might expect. It isn't what's considered the norm. Course, neither of them are normal at all.They're also, whether Jyren likes it or not, not human...and so 'real' is hard to put correctly. Maybe they're relationship doesn't seem as real for a human, but humans doesn't have the deep connection that Jyren and Marix share. Humans can't even get close to it. The link that the two of them share throws a wrench in things, as they are quite literally one person. They share everything, and that's why Marix always hates how attached to words Jyren is. They don't need words. They don't have to show each other how much they love one another, as they can feel it all of the time. Like I said, this doesn't mean sex isn't there or isn't a part of their relationship, but its definitely not of the same level as their connection to one another.Maybe fighting and winning by himself wasn't right, though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In fact, I would argue that Jyren was losing. He entered into a fight, a lightsaber duel, with someone he cared a great deal about and knew couldn't match him. But he still fought. He still stepped in without thinking. If he wasn't able to control himself(important!), he could have killed her. He has instincts when it comes to fights like that that Jen never developed. If he had let his instincts take control of him like in a fight of the caliber he had with Voort, she would have been killed in a quick strike. That would have been more of a mistake than anything else he had done. Anything.But Jyren realized that. His mind caught up to his actions and he was able to stop himself, to step back and try to do what he should have done the entire time. Get his friend back. He shouldn't have fought her. Standing down and leaving himself open was the first time he truly did something like a Jedi should do, and he did his best to bring his friend back to the Light.No, it didn't work immediately. But his words did have a strong affect on her. So much so that she couldn't listen anymore and had to send the Darkwing to do what she had been trying to do before, since the Darkwing couldn't be talked out of killing him. Alone, "I have a son" wouldn't be enough. But the thought processes were already in motion, and that one thing, coupled with seeing the Darkwing about to finally kill him, was enough.The most heroic thing Jyren did up to that point was refusing to fight her any longer. All of that lack of thinking, acting childish, and lack of control was gone.  It nearly cost him his life, and it did cost him Jen's...but she did come back. The most important thing I've always taken from Star Wars is that no one is ever too far gone. Jyren never attempted to bring anyone back until Jen. He fought and killed so many others because that's just what you did. Heroes kill people and save the day. But what had slowly started with Voort finally came together when Jyren was confronted by Jen. He always wanted to be a Jedi, and that was the moment that he was.</blockquote>

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