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Message: <blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 9644768" data-attributes="member: 90374">Like it, I understand, the love on the other hand... I think TLJ was a mess and I say this as someone who likes Riann Johnson films. Its SW so its impossible to separate it from the franchise, so im not gonna try. I'll sum it up by saying TLJ felt like Johnson's version of a Tarantino film. 2-3 incredible scenes wrapped in a huge pile of meh of a complete film. Though, yes, none of its problem were due to hair or skin color.I think this was in stark contrast to TPM and AotC. Folks finally felt like the end of the prequels had been reached, and it was not a straight for kids movie or overwhelmed with exposition. It was a grade on a curve.There is a lot to unpack here. Despite any unpacking though, no its not a hate the fans film.It was odd. When we last left off the Emperor was dead, and everybody in the galaxy were dancing. Though, when it comes back, everything is pretty bleak and it turns out that Endor run was just a battle win in a long war. Any confusion here is on JJ tho. He does it again in RoS were he just resurrects the empire as a major threat without much explanation, logical or otherwise. You know, im not sure why JJ doesnt get as much blame for things off the rails as Johnson?Absolutely, absolutely horrifying... I took the "let the past die..." line as more of Kylo talking about himself then any Rey legacy. He has been fighting to find himself in all this, and now he has finally thrown off the shackles of masters and is ready to define his own path. He is trying to get Rey to do the same. Folks took that as verifiable truth that Rey's past didnt mean jack. I think that was amplified by the fact that Snoke was left utterly undefined and instantly dispatched in Fett style. Its hard to put two and two together within the "skywalker" saga of the line too. Has nothing that came before matters anymore? A lot of TLJ leads to a "eff the skywalker saga" and a lot of folks showed up to see the skywaler saga carried on. Then, the Luke stuff...Folks didnt like seeing their childhood hero grow into a cynical old man. We just saw it moments ago, "Luke would never!!!" Although, for me it was worth it for astral projection Luke. I mean, how beautiful was that scene? It felt very samurai and maybe even the only moment in the entire franchise that didnt feel like a hack samurai attempt.I think the point of the mythos being meanginless, oh but wait... was fumbled. Such a thing needed to be poignant in the entire trilogy, but we are now getting that left turn after we got nostalgia bait from JJ. It was a confusing turn of theme for the second of a three film stretch. Then, whiplash as JJ rides in to save the day with more nostaliga bait... The issues of TLJ are not all its own, but really the disjunction of its place in a saga and franchise.  Yeap. Again the contrast of too on the nose with too subtle was whiplash. In one instance, you got an orphan on a desert planet that is adept with machiens and a naturally good pilot who is force senistive who stumbles on a droid with a McGuffin... that turns out not to be a skywalker at all...Its a good point, but a really weird place to make it. Especially, on the heels of JJs skywalker saga nosalgia trip. Speaking of coming off the heels of something, TLJ had a very wierd tone about the rebellion force. It was clearly influenced by Rogue One, which I enjoyed as an outside the Skywalker saga experience. Though, lets examine that further. Opening sequence of TLJ has fighters get wasted and all kinds of rebels dying nobel deaths to bring down a big empire ship. Later in the film, we have a guy pilot to a noble suicide becasue of gas... god the gas thing... Anyways, why did the guy have to pilot the ship until it was shot by the empire? Well, it was for the feels! Ultimately, the skywalker saga always put the imperials and the rebles int he background. It was the skywalker saga. Not to say ther eis no room in SW universe outside the skywalkers, but its their saga. To suddenly remove the skywalkers, or demostrate the intention of doing so, in the middle of a trilogy about the Skywalkers, was not bold, but I think a bad decision. Simply because this tone added tot he confusion of fans and led them away from the otherwise good points the film had to make.    Are there such folks? On second thought, please dont answer that.</blockquote>

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