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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 3428819" data-attributes="member: 19857">This gets at the very heart of the matter, actually.  The struggle between unique character concept and representing archetypal character concept is what a lot of these "D&D doesn't work with ... / I want to be able to model ..." arguments boil down to.Some folks want a D&D experience where their vision of archetypes is reinforced by the rules - where fighters are burly folks who wade into battle in heavy armor wielding heavy weapons, thieves skulk quietly down the corridors, wizards throw spells from the back of the group, and clerics get in their licks while throwing healing spells onto their compatriots.  Anything that deviates too much from this archetypal group -- that causes, say, fighters to take on attributes of thieves, or clerics to seem too much like wizards -- messes with the game aspects and alters the way the game is played.On the other hand, many folks want a D&D experience that models the fantasy characters that they read or watch (or, yes, play on their computers or Playstations).  For these folks, the archetypal grouping up there often doesn't make a lot of sense.  Why not a character concept that is the lithe fighter-type who can't find traps worth a darn but avoids blows and doesn't wear heavy armor?  Or the cleric of the god of fire who doesn't join his compatriots on the front lines or throw healing spells but instead stands at the back and throws fireballs into the mix?  For these player, game aspect like "who fills what role in a dungeon expedition" take a back seat to "how can I make my character like the one who sits in my head".Both groups are playing D&D.  Both groups pull at the rules to make the game better fit their particular play style.  And neither group will ever totally be happy with any set of rules that come out because the goals aren't just incompatible, they're almost mutually exclusive.  Things that allow a higher degree of character customization are going to necessarily allow those characters to break out of their archetypal roles, and things that force characters to conform more to the archetypal roles originally outlined for the game are going to restrict the choices that a player can make in modeling a character.  Therefore, fights will continue on messageboards across the internets unto the heat death of the universe (or to the extinction of mankind, I suppose, whichever comes first.)</blockquote>

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