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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wanderer20" data-source="post: 3466486" data-attributes="member: 28073">I totally agree with Matthias about the skill modifications, as do my group (though we play Ravenloft).  A so-simplified skill system makes impossible to portray all non-heroic characters from every setting. I know Star Wars (which we played) is much more heroic than Ravenloft, but, huh, never heard of the Expert class?  The difference between heroes and commoners should not done in the hardcode of the game mechanics, but with the right assignment of Bab, skill ranks and base saving throws. This way when you put someone under a saving throw (that won't even exist anymore, what if the DM needed to roll secretly to grant success/failure when the PC rolls a natural 1 or 20?) or opposed check you can see whether he/she is heroic or not.  Not to mention the poorness of merging Listen&Spot with Search and Sense Motive into Perception, or Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomacy into Persuasion.  I'm happy this has been throughly debated so I have not to write my 50 lines, but I agree that the result is: everyone will have every significant skill, and in a non-realistic way (I could see the use of merging Listen and Spot, or Bluff and Disguise, or Diplomacy and Gather Information, or Hide and Move Silently, but all these examples are based upon the same ability). And just this: there will be a hero without Persuasion, given the fact almost every PC now has one of the three skills that will be merged onto it?  And simplifying the opposed skill check is also bad: if the main factor is the character level, the difference between two 14-level Scoundrels trained in Perception is 14 + Wis (+ skill focus); assuming one has Wis 10 and the other Wis 17 (the first one has a commoner's Wisdom, the second one is a top-level spotter) and both take skill focus(Perception) to maximize it: they roll 19 vs 22!! Almost 40%-60%!! To make a long story short, a top-level spotter cannot think to best his commoneralike counterpart on regular basis, while in 3.5 the two could be translated in: two 14th level Rogues, same Wisdom, save the fact the one with Wis 10 will not maximize Spot or Listen (more like only one of the two to save ranks, let's say Listen) because he knows plenty of rogues with better Wis will beat him (he'll probably maximize something he's good at, maybe he has low Wis but 18 Dex or Cha), and the second one will maximize both with probably Alertness: they roll 17 + 0 vs 17 +3 +2...17 vs 22 (Around 25%-75% but a student of statistic could give us the exact value); if you consider this example correct (I have no doubt many won't), in 3.5 the second Rogue was a good Listener while the first was a decent one, just because he has it as a class skill.  Thesis following: "If the PCs can only choose among maximized and not-maximised skills, PCs' distinction will be lesser and the game will be worse"  Um, sorry for the long post...</blockquote>

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