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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9768751" data-attributes="member: 4937">I agree with all that.  Not sure where you are going with this.Like Galadriel, I don't understand what you here mean by the word "magical".  Accessing the force is perceived as magic by the unlearned because they don't understand it, and they call the things that they don't understand "magic".  The reason we have to distinguish between using a force point and wielding a force power is that when wielding a force power you can guide the force to do what you want, manipulating things outside yourself.  This is "action at a distance" or "causing the universe to obey your will by thought alone", two of the generic definitions of "magic" that hold up pretty well.  Using a force power to me isn't doing either one of those things.  There is a critical and important difference between something that only effects your own actions and something that changes or alters other people's actions.So first of all, I don't think I have ever argued otherwise.  And secondly, the WEG game makes clear that being Force Sensitive does in fact change the standards that apply to you - whether you wield force powers or not.  Force Sensitives being more sensitive to the light side and the dark side, are more "knowing" and willful than non-force sensitives when taking actions and so are subject to greater and easier corruption.  It's a lot easier for a Force Sensitive like a Jedi to slide into the Dark Side than someone like Han Solo.  Han Solo can take shady actions without gaining dark side points.  This is why being "Force Sensitive" isn't a no brainer.  If you want to play a morally grey character, it's critical you are not force sensitive.  That isn't to say that Han can use Force Points to do shady things, but in general he can act shadier without being corrupted because he less understands the moral consequences of his actions.  But again, you are acting here like my position is different than it is.   I'm not saying that you can use Force Points for shady purposes.   I am saying your claims about what is shady or not are Lawful Stupid interpretations of what is shady and selfish, that seem like antagonistic "gotcha" GMing and not the rigorous application of principles you claim.Agreed.  But your notion of a "selfish deed" seems rather broad, and would seem to preclude Luke using a force point to dodge Darth Vader's blaster fire while racing down the trench to destroy the exhaust port, or similarly taking a dodge action while simultaneously swinging across the Death Star canyon, necessary actions within the game world.I think its because you don't understand what I'm saying at all.What I am saying is that stripped of its narrative context and build up, Luke's destruction of the Death Star by shooting a photon torpedo into the 2m port is boring.  In fact, one of the things that "saved Star Wars in the edit" (which is a vast oversimplification) was increasing the tension of this final sequence by cutting back and forth between Luke and the count down at the Rebel base as they are waiting to be destroyed.  The action itself is not exciting, but rather it is exciting because it is the climax of a long and dramatic build up where almost the entire Rebel force is destroyed and now Luke is the last one left and he only has one shot at this and the dramatic music is playing and we are getting shots where we move away from the action to show the great danger he is in (both from the perspective of the base and from Darth Vader's perspective) and then Luke is essentially told "Hey, use a force point" (which he didn't know he could do) and then he wins at the last moment through the intervention of Han Solo at the same time.  And all of that makes for great dramatic timing.But in play, what tends to actually happen is the PC protagonist efficiently attacks the exhaust port first before anyone else has died on the suicide mission and efficiently uses that force point first time to land the shot first time before Darth Vader is even in the air, and while that is conceptually the same thing the dramatic experience of it is very different.  What am I supposed to do about that?  Punish the player for being efficiently heroic and not getting everyone killed?And this is why "good" force point uses like the saving the falling comrade or the covering the wounded witness with your own body to save them from the explosion while simultaneously using a medkit on him feel so different.  Those are dramatic actions in and of themselves, regardless of the context in which they occur.But those are rarer than the less dramatic use of short cutting to the conclusion of the scene.You just don't understand what I'm saying and you need to back away and look at what I'm saying again.</blockquote>

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