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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1673506" data-attributes="member: 5171">Very true. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />No.  Three classes are average at combat.  Two classes are bad at combat.  One class is good at combat.  d20 Modern does not assume that BAB=Level is the norm.  It's assumed that an "average" hero will probably have a BAB of around three-fourths of their level.  You can't use the yardstick of D&D to determine whether or not d20 characters are weak.  Yes, d20 Modern characters will generally have a lower BAB and fewer hit points (although their saves, if they multiclass, are close), but this doesn't make them weak.  This makes them weaker than D&D classes, yes, but in a d20 Modern game, you're not fighting rogues and clerics.  You're fighting other d20 Modern people.No.  A martial artist has a higher BAB, but d20 Modern has such a plethora of feats and, more importantly, chances to get feats, that simply looking at the BAB is not a good way to measure somebody's power.If you tried to max out a Strong/MA as a gun-specialist, you'd have a high BAB, sure, but you wouldn't have nearly as many bonus feats specific to guns as you would if you went with Fast/Gunslinger.  The Fast/Gunslinger will blow the Strong/MA out of the water in a gunfight, simply because while the Strong/MA can go "Yeah, I hit you slightly more often!  2d6!", the Fast/Gunslinger says, "Yeah, hm, sucks to be me, I hit you a little less often... oh, but I'll be Double-Tapping and using Point Blank Shot, so I do a whole mess more damage."  Also, your Strong guy's talents don't add anything to his gun power ("Haha, improved melee smash!"), but your Fast guy gets defensive talents that help a bunch, and the Gunslinger gets all kinds of talents.I'm not explaining this very well, and this isn't exactly the thread for it, but seriously -- try it out.  You can build a decent Strong/MA gun-user, but at the same level, you can build a much better gun-user with Fast levels and the Gunslinger or Soldier class.  (My player's Fast4/Soldier3 is a high holy terror in the game -- it's good that the game is mostly investigative, because he's basically a one-shot-killer when it comes to combat -- 3d8+2 when double-tapping with his Desert Eagle.)And if your d20 Modern characters were facing the exact same challenges and fighting the exact same bad guys as your Spycraft characters, this would be a valid point.  But they aren't, so this isn't.  It's a different system with a different intent.  Choose the game that goes with the intent you want.</blockquote>

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