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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8768262" data-attributes="member: 67338">So I am working on a pitch for a spell jammer game (a few of us are) and I am doing  a dark 'world in danger' idea... but it ends up basically being star gate but with the world having 1 experimental spell jammer and sending SC1 (spell Com team 1) out into the astral. I took some idea's from a Mongoose press setting from 4e. We had played it twice, and everyone (including people no longer with us) loved it... but as I mentioned the pitch to my 2 groups (with a lot of overlap) I got an old (especially here on enworld) complaint but one I didn't think of..."IF this is like star gate we can't play jack"So if you don't know star gate sg1 the main team leader is the guy without any special knowledge or training... and sometimes comes off as a dumb fighter. Of course he is anything but dumb, he is a trained pilot a tactical (maybe) genius. He just isn't trained in physics or ancient cavillations or alien tech (the other 3 members are) The problem is that would in D&D translate into making a character without magic. And as I have said before that is a big ask for our groups unless we set up good ground rules... in the past we have used no caster (or really limited caster) games but this time this has caused a debate we have not really had before...1/3 of the group (almost not exact number) says we should run it with no full caster just use artificer, a modified ranger, and the arcane trick and eldritch knight (we have done this before)just under 1/3 of the group said no lets just go no non casters, reflavor hex blade and bard for fighters (we have done this before as well)but for the first time some members have asked (that about 1/3 left) Maybe we should just not run it in D&D? this subset then counter pitched using oWoD rules... have the PCs make mortals and maybe use some of the add on stuff for mortals as 'magic' (so refluff kin, ghoul, and hedge wizard)  or if we do it in person maybe TORG (running that on roll20 would be hard with all the cards)but this finally lead to the question I had hoped 1D&D would put off... "Are we done with D&D?"so Long and short of it is I don't WANT to be done with D&D... but my group would splinter if we went to older editions (some want 3e and wont play 4e, some want 4e and wont play 3e... all of us old enough to have played liked 2e but will never again do Thac0) BUT going to other systems threatens to do this as well.  So I know we already have a "what do you do to make martials feel better" thread and a "what do you want out of a martial fix" thread... but in this case I am looking for hope and ideas for my group.  If we WANT to push D&D more and stay in it, how do we? Enworld has it's own optional D20 system that is A5E and I have been thinking about it... but that would mean abandoning the best part of useing roll20 (importing) and a sizeable number of us(if not all of us) buying a new book.  People have recommended the new Rokogon book maybe if it is something I could buy as a DM to make adjustments (again if we want to keep with roll20 it has to be VERY compatible) I made this a (+) thread not to shut down discussion, with 1 exception, please do not come in just to tell me my group is wrong... it doesn't matter if it is in the book or in our heads, WE do not find 5e balanced (not even 1 of us), so we HAVE to do something like no full casters or no non casters just to keep us close.</blockquote>

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