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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blacksad" data-source="post: 1468979" data-attributes="member: 1359">That's what bother me, exception to the system. If their is only one, there is no problems. But it's probable that there is other, vehicles that do not fit well in many vehicles construction system: -motorcycle (medium size vehicle which can carry two medium size passenger)-submarine (more a problem with vehicles rules than construction, but still: an easy target when on the sea, a very fragile vehicle when under the sea, plus the cover rules which work strangely with mines and the like).-rocket (a vehicle which destroy itself in its use)-cart (or any muscle or wind powered vehicle: how do you determine maximum charge and speed, etc...)I thought that they weren't used as military vessels <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Yet, this fact does not disrupt suspension of disbelief, because it means easy play and it is used in many games (CRPG, CCG, RTS, etc...).While not being able to cover some vehicles, or only with special rules, could disrupt the faith in the system.Well, d20 BESM and d20 Mecha did something close (even if movement is too cheap for D&D in those books) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I think that this is a good idea. Though I think that building such a system to be generic is harder than building a generic point buy system (The easier it is to use, the harder it is to design).I do not know how to present all of my needs in a pleasant to read form, but I'll try. Here are my needs and their motivation:-a good presentation and index: Babylon 5 use the Dragonstar's vehicle system, but the repair rules the combat rules and the ship stats were spread all over the rulebook (which had no chapter heading) making it really hard and unpleasant to use.-an easy way to assess the relative combat strength of vessel: I used the Archipelageo ship system in an over the top campaign, ships were described using monster statblock, so you could compare the ship statblock to other monster to assess its strength (they were given CR). Ships fighted each other on their specific scale (which maked direct interaction from PC a bit hard).-a guide or sidebars to prevent stupid design: when I used mecha crusade I designed a mecha which was unable to deal damage due to the default damage reduction of other vehicles (it was in the same over the top campaign, in which they modified an undead ship to become a spaceship akin to the one from Captain Harlock<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />).-ease to reverse engineer stats produced on the fly: in a planescape campaign set in the Ethereal plane, I used a mix of Spelljammer: Spidermoon and Alternity rules to produce ships stats and have interesting interaction, those stats were produced in less than 30 secondes, but I abandonned all attempts to form a coherent system based on it.As you see, the kind of setting I tend to play can vary wildly, but I use the d20 system with little variation for most (and I plan to test d20 Mecha rules once I've bought the Heavy Gear 3rd edition book). So I would like a system which can be easily used with any setting provided that the rules do not vary wildly (no need to have any compatibility with M&M, Godlike or Star Wars, though compatibility with Star Wars would means compatibility with Spycraft and I would like it, but that goes a bit too far IMO).The ease of creation with steps is interesting, it means that the system could be easily put in players hands. But I also need that the system can support my habit of assigning stats on the fly. Because once I'm acustomed to a system I do not need the steps anymore to produce balanced encounters.This is somewhat counter intuitive in D&D (it used to be easy in 2nd edition), given the number of variables, that's why there is those pre-made NPC in the DMG, and all those monster and templates available on the market. Producing balanced NPC and monster being quite hard, those ensure that it is still easy to play.That's why I'm not even sure that a class/level system is desirable if it makes it hard for the GM to design vehicles when he has the final stats already in mind (while player try to find what they can buy with their money). Though if it can be done without bothering the GM it would be better.On hit points, is there any inherent reason to tie it to something?edit: I've lost the PDF of the first 4 chapters and the link seems broken <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> can I find it anywhere else? There was a lot of good things, and I was willing to see if a different perspective could lend to something.</blockquote>

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