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Starting Zeitgeist in 5e - Master thesis, Conversion and other shenanigans
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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 7261100" data-attributes="member: 63"><p>First, welcome and good luck. I'm Ryan Nock, the director of the ZEITGEIST adventure path.</p><p></p><p>Second, I'm exceptionally excited that the adventures we created are going to be part of your master's thesis. I don't know that I've ever seen any research literature on the anthropology of roleplaying games, but I've never really looked. The closest I can think of is that in 2005 or so I had a couple sociology students film a game session I ran because they wanted to examine the interactions and power dynamics, particularly about how each player and the GM acted as a sort of gatekeeper on how deeply in-character the group was allowed to get.</p><p></p><p>I can't really recommend any anthropological literature on RPGs, since I'm unfamiliar, but I bet if you posted in the general forum you'd find at least a few academics on EN World who could suggest something.</p><p></p><p>I work in a medical research library at Emory University in Atlanta, and so I checked the medical literature. Most of what I found was psychology and sociology related. For instance:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28808830" target="_blank">Social Workers' Perceptions of the Association Between Role Playing Games and Psychopathology</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25589035" target="_blank">Psychiatrists' Perceptions of Role-Playing Games.</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9520550" target="_blank">Personalities of players of Dungeons and Dragons.</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7942917/" target="_blank">Ethics assessment via game play?</a></li> </ul><p></p><p>I don't think any of those are a close fit for what you're looking for, though.</p><p></p><p>Third, as to whether the adventures are too complex for new players, I suppose it depends on your players and whether they've played, for instance, story-heavy video games like The Witcher, or if they have experience acting. People unfamiliar with RPGs will need to learn 'how to play' regardless of how involved the plot is. As a game, though, players sometimes have fun with the gameplay elements, like whether they use the right tactics to defeat a monster, while other times the fun comes from narrative elements, like influencing the world and building an interesting story. </p><p></p><p>Fun-through-gameplay is far more common - from chess to soccer to Super Mario Bros, everyone is familiar with how to have fun this way - and ZEITGEIST has a fair bit of that. Fun-through-narrative might be a less familiar concept, and ZEITGEIST is heavy on narrative. Plus, of course, players have different tastes; if your players don't like mystery stories, then in the second adventure <em>The Dying Skyseer</em> they might get frustrated, even if they are otherwise comfortable playing a character and fighting monsters.</p><p></p><p>But enthusiasm is contagious. If you like it, I think your friends will give it a try.</p><p></p><p>(However, ZEITGEIST also is *long*. Even playing 5e, which goes through combats faster than Pathfinder, you might want to be prepared to wrap up after adventure 2 if the group isn't into it, or adventure 5 if they like it but cannot commit to a year or more of games.)</p><p></p><p>Fourth, based on your Facebook idea, it sounds like you're looking for ways to get your group of novice players into the mindset of their characters. I know a handful of ZEITGEIST GMs had their players write journals to keep track of the campaign, and some of them are posted on the website Obsidian Portal, and at least one was here. In my own group in Atlanta, we're playing a Star Wars campaign. I have a player who writes and shares a Google Document with the group. He mostly just jots down NPC names, places, dramatic encounters, and the occasional funny comment, so it's not in-character, but it's handy for players to keep track of things in a hurry. Also it's searchable, which would be a benefit over Facebook. The timeline of FB doesn't lend itself well to looking very far back. </p><p></p><p>You might consider Discord. It lets you set up multiple feeds, so you could have an in-character and out-of-character feed. Old comments are fairly easy to search for, especially if you Pin a noteworthy comment. And it has a good smartphone app, as well as a web version. However, you cannot make the feed public like you can in Facebook. Obsidian Portal lets you make things public, but it doesn't work as well for out-of-game chatter. </p><p></p><p>Fifth, if you're looking for help on 5e conversion, check out the EN5ider Patreon. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/ensider/posts?tag=ZEITGEIST" target="_blank">https://www.patreon.com/ensider/posts?tag=ZEITGEIST</a> They've converted the Player's Guide and most of the first module. Depending on how fast your group plays, you'll probably go through the material faster than they can publish, but it should be a good foundation, especially for the character themes.</p><p></p><p>Let me know any way I can help.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 7261100, member: 63"] First, welcome and good luck. I'm Ryan Nock, the director of the ZEITGEIST adventure path. Second, I'm exceptionally excited that the adventures we created are going to be part of your master's thesis. I don't know that I've ever seen any research literature on the anthropology of roleplaying games, but I've never really looked. The closest I can think of is that in 2005 or so I had a couple sociology students film a game session I ran because they wanted to examine the interactions and power dynamics, particularly about how each player and the GM acted as a sort of gatekeeper on how deeply in-character the group was allowed to get. I can't really recommend any anthropological literature on RPGs, since I'm unfamiliar, but I bet if you posted in the general forum you'd find at least a few academics on EN World who could suggest something. I work in a medical research library at Emory University in Atlanta, and so I checked the medical literature. Most of what I found was psychology and sociology related. For instance: [list][*][url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28808830]Social Workers' Perceptions of the Association Between Role Playing Games and Psychopathology[/url] [*][url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25589035]Psychiatrists' Perceptions of Role-Playing Games.[/url] [*][url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9520550]Personalities of players of Dungeons and Dragons.[/url] [*][url=http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7942917/]Ethics assessment via game play?[/url][/list] I don't think any of those are a close fit for what you're looking for, though. Third, as to whether the adventures are too complex for new players, I suppose it depends on your players and whether they've played, for instance, story-heavy video games like The Witcher, or if they have experience acting. People unfamiliar with RPGs will need to learn 'how to play' regardless of how involved the plot is. As a game, though, players sometimes have fun with the gameplay elements, like whether they use the right tactics to defeat a monster, while other times the fun comes from narrative elements, like influencing the world and building an interesting story. Fun-through-gameplay is far more common - from chess to soccer to Super Mario Bros, everyone is familiar with how to have fun this way - and ZEITGEIST has a fair bit of that. Fun-through-narrative might be a less familiar concept, and ZEITGEIST is heavy on narrative. Plus, of course, players have different tastes; if your players don't like mystery stories, then in the second adventure [i]The Dying Skyseer[/i] they might get frustrated, even if they are otherwise comfortable playing a character and fighting monsters. But enthusiasm is contagious. If you like it, I think your friends will give it a try. (However, ZEITGEIST also is *long*. Even playing 5e, which goes through combats faster than Pathfinder, you might want to be prepared to wrap up after adventure 2 if the group isn't into it, or adventure 5 if they like it but cannot commit to a year or more of games.) Fourth, based on your Facebook idea, it sounds like you're looking for ways to get your group of novice players into the mindset of their characters. I know a handful of ZEITGEIST GMs had their players write journals to keep track of the campaign, and some of them are posted on the website Obsidian Portal, and at least one was here. In my own group in Atlanta, we're playing a Star Wars campaign. I have a player who writes and shares a Google Document with the group. He mostly just jots down NPC names, places, dramatic encounters, and the occasional funny comment, so it's not in-character, but it's handy for players to keep track of things in a hurry. Also it's searchable, which would be a benefit over Facebook. The timeline of FB doesn't lend itself well to looking very far back. You might consider Discord. It lets you set up multiple feeds, so you could have an in-character and out-of-character feed. Old comments are fairly easy to search for, especially if you Pin a noteworthy comment. And it has a good smartphone app, as well as a web version. However, you cannot make the feed public like you can in Facebook. Obsidian Portal lets you make things public, but it doesn't work as well for out-of-game chatter. Fifth, if you're looking for help on 5e conversion, check out the EN5ider Patreon. [url]https://www.patreon.com/ensider/posts?tag=ZEITGEIST[/url] They've converted the Player's Guide and most of the first module. Depending on how fast your group plays, you'll probably go through the material faster than they can publish, but it should be a good foundation, especially for the character themes. Let me know any way I can help. [/QUOTE]
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