Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
State of the RPG Industry
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 1243562" data-attributes="member: 2804"><p>In the short term, yes. In the long term, no. As long as there is profit to be made, competitors will seek to enter the market. Eventually, the one with both best product and the healthiest financials will emerge on top.</p><p></p><p>Only significant barriers to entry will sustain the market leadership of a company that sells a poor product. Eventually a competitor will come along who not only has the financial savvy of the market leader, but has a better product too.</p><p></p><p>The problem with the RPG industry and more specifically d20, is that right now there are so many companies fighting for the dollars of a limited customer base. Like somone said earlier (Pramas?) the best selling books are the ones that appeal to DMs because they invest the most in the game. Likewise, a lot of DM's screen materials that players bring to the table. So there is not a lot of incentive for players to go out and buy books that there DM may not let them use. When you really think about it, most books aren't even marketed to the entire RPG fan base. They are marketed to the DMs, an even smaller subset of an already small market!</p><p></p><p>There are two main solutions that I see, although neither one is easy. One is to encourage more purchasing by players. This would require more DM's to be more free in what they allow to their table. </p><p></p><p>One reason that CCG's like Magic do well in comparison to the RPG market is that there is no one really standing over you and saying this card is allowed and this one isn't. You as the player can buy and play whatever you want without a DM to overrule you. Granted, that in a collectible market like mini's or CCG's, companies like Games Workshop and WotC frequently rule older cards or minis as "illegal" but this is done to foster the purchase of newer cards and minis, and it generally works. </p><p></p><p>But RPG players by the nature of the beast are required to submit to the rulings of a DM and the DM is course free to limit whatever goes at his/her table. You would have to massively change attitudes, like eliminating things like Rule Zero, and basically demanding that all DM's must allow all "official" D&D products.</p><p></p><p>This would alienate DMs and and even if it worked you are still only reaching the limited RPG market. But still, it can boost sales and WotC's reissuing of the core rules in the form of 3.5 does partially take advantage of this market strategy. Something they learned from the CCG market.</p><p></p><p>The other and much better option is to expand the RPG market base. More players and more DM's means more books sold all around. I also see elements of this strategy in WotC's recent move to 3.5 and connecting the game to the minis market. This accomplishes several things. It allows WotC to sell both books and minis, cross-marketing their RPG products and their minis products and hopefully expanding the customer base for both products at the same time.</p><p></p><p>Also by focusing more on the tactical table-top wargame aspects of D&D, it allows WotC to appeal to the non-gamer. Let's face it, the image of a bunch of "geeks" sitting around, talking in funny voices, and playing "Dungeons and Dragons" is very negative image/stereotype that does not appeal to the mass market. But when you have something like minis and grid maps, suddenly things start to look much more like a fascinating and complex board game. And board games appeal much better to the mass market than the negative RPG stereotype does.</p><p></p><p>If WotC can sell minis to gamers, sell RPGs to minis players, and bring in new blood with either market or through the new D&D board game, they will be doing all of us a great service because they will be expanding the RPG market base. That means more customers for not only other d20 publishers, it also means more people getting into RPG's and higher sales for WW, Hero Games, etc.</p><p></p><p>Some things WotC should be doing right now: Get the D&D board game in major U.S. chain stores like Toys R Us and Wal-Mart, include ads and discount coupons for the D&D mini's game and for the core rulebooks within the box.</p><p></p><p>They should also go to Cartoon Network or use some of that Hasbro purchasing power to put out a FR cartoon show. Hasbro could even do action figures and stuff, in addition to the minis. Who wouldn't want to buy Battle Action Drizzt? Or Elminster with Kung-Fu grip? Other figures and accessories sold seperately! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Seriously, the amount of IP that WotC sits on and does nothing with just boggles my mind.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dragonblade, post: 1243562, member: 2804"] In the short term, yes. In the long term, no. As long as there is profit to be made, competitors will seek to enter the market. Eventually, the one with both best product and the healthiest financials will emerge on top. Only significant barriers to entry will sustain the market leadership of a company that sells a poor product. Eventually a competitor will come along who not only has the financial savvy of the market leader, but has a better product too. The problem with the RPG industry and more specifically d20, is that right now there are so many companies fighting for the dollars of a limited customer base. Like somone said earlier (Pramas?) the best selling books are the ones that appeal to DMs because they invest the most in the game. Likewise, a lot of DM's screen materials that players bring to the table. So there is not a lot of incentive for players to go out and buy books that there DM may not let them use. When you really think about it, most books aren't even marketed to the entire RPG fan base. They are marketed to the DMs, an even smaller subset of an already small market! There are two main solutions that I see, although neither one is easy. One is to encourage more purchasing by players. This would require more DM's to be more free in what they allow to their table. One reason that CCG's like Magic do well in comparison to the RPG market is that there is no one really standing over you and saying this card is allowed and this one isn't. You as the player can buy and play whatever you want without a DM to overrule you. Granted, that in a collectible market like mini's or CCG's, companies like Games Workshop and WotC frequently rule older cards or minis as "illegal" but this is done to foster the purchase of newer cards and minis, and it generally works. But RPG players by the nature of the beast are required to submit to the rulings of a DM and the DM is course free to limit whatever goes at his/her table. You would have to massively change attitudes, like eliminating things like Rule Zero, and basically demanding that all DM's must allow all "official" D&D products. This would alienate DMs and and even if it worked you are still only reaching the limited RPG market. But still, it can boost sales and WotC's reissuing of the core rules in the form of 3.5 does partially take advantage of this market strategy. Something they learned from the CCG market. The other and much better option is to expand the RPG market base. More players and more DM's means more books sold all around. I also see elements of this strategy in WotC's recent move to 3.5 and connecting the game to the minis market. This accomplishes several things. It allows WotC to sell both books and minis, cross-marketing their RPG products and their minis products and hopefully expanding the customer base for both products at the same time. Also by focusing more on the tactical table-top wargame aspects of D&D, it allows WotC to appeal to the non-gamer. Let's face it, the image of a bunch of "geeks" sitting around, talking in funny voices, and playing "Dungeons and Dragons" is very negative image/stereotype that does not appeal to the mass market. But when you have something like minis and grid maps, suddenly things start to look much more like a fascinating and complex board game. And board games appeal much better to the mass market than the negative RPG stereotype does. If WotC can sell minis to gamers, sell RPGs to minis players, and bring in new blood with either market or through the new D&D board game, they will be doing all of us a great service because they will be expanding the RPG market base. That means more customers for not only other d20 publishers, it also means more people getting into RPG's and higher sales for WW, Hero Games, etc. Some things WotC should be doing right now: Get the D&D board game in major U.S. chain stores like Toys R Us and Wal-Mart, include ads and discount coupons for the D&D mini's game and for the core rulebooks within the box. They should also go to Cartoon Network or use some of that Hasbro purchasing power to put out a FR cartoon show. Hasbro could even do action figures and stuff, in addition to the minis. Who wouldn't want to buy Battle Action Drizzt? Or Elminster with Kung-Fu grip? Other figures and accessories sold seperately! :D Seriously, the amount of IP that WotC sits on and does nothing with just boggles my mind. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
State of the RPG Industry
Top