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<blockquote data-quote="tarchon" data-source="post: 337356" data-attributes="member: 5990">The bard has BAB +3 vs. +1 for the sor/rog, and 16.5 vs. 13.5 avg hp.&nbsp; BAB and hitpoints don't matter in determining class power?The skills advantage is questionable, since you spend three levels getting the crappy sorcerer skill set (and remember the rank maxima? - the rogue skill points at 1st level aren't going to get you any ranks above 4).&nbsp; I'd say they're really about even on skills if you bother to consider everything.&nbsp; You also miss out on bard songs and bardic knowledge, which is like a very versatile Knowledge skill.&nbsp; The rogue sneak attack ability won't be much good to you either since you'll be pretty useless in melee combat.And you say more spells...?&lt;table&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;th&gt;rog 1/sor 3&lt;/th&gt;&lt;th&gt;lev 0&lt;/th&gt;&lt;th&gt;lev 1&lt;/th&gt;&lt;th&gt;lev 2&lt;/th&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;known&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;5&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;= 8&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;per day&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;6&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;6&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;= 12&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;th&gt;bard 4&lt;/th&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;known&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;6&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;= 11&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;per day&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;= 7&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;(assuming both have Cha of at least 14)I guess it's more a question of whether you prefer higher level spells with more variety (and higher caster level) or more lower level spells from a smaller selection.&nbsp; I strongly disagree that the sor3/rog1 is clearly the winner on spells here.You're doing the same thing that most people on gaming boards do with these class &quot;analyses&quot;.&nbsp; You pick a couple abilities where the class you want to attack is (ostensibly) weaker, and you ignore the points where it's stronger.&nbsp; That's not analysis; that's just a rationalization of some subjective prejudice.&nbsp; I dunno if a bard scared you when you were a kid or something, but I think you should take another look at this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tarchon, post: 337356, member: 5990"] The bard has BAB +3 vs. +1 for the sor/rog, and 16.5 vs. 13.5 avg hp. BAB and hitpoints don't matter in determining class power? The skills advantage is questionable, since you spend three levels getting the crappy sorcerer skill set (and remember the rank maxima? - the rogue skill points at 1st level aren't going to get you any ranks above 4). I'd say they're really about even on skills if you bother to consider everything. You also miss out on bard songs and bardic knowledge, which is like a very versatile Knowledge skill. The rogue sneak attack ability won't be much good to you either since you'll be pretty useless in melee combat. And you say more spells...? <table> <tr><th>[color=white]rog 1/sor 3[/color]</th><th>[color=white]lev 0[/color]</th><th>[color=white]lev 1[/color]</th><th>[color=white]lev 2[/color]</th></tr> <tr> <td>[color=white]known[/color]</td><td>[color=white]5[/color]</td><td>[color=white]3[/color]</td><td>[color=white]0[/color]</td><td>[color=white]= 8[/color]</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[color=white]per day[/color]</td><td>[color=white]6[/color]</td><td>[color=white]6[/color]</td><td>[color=white]0[/color]</td><td>[color=white]= 12[/color]</td> </tr> <tr><th>[color=white]bard 4[/color]</th></tr> <tr> <td>[color=white]known[/color]</td><td>[color=white]6[/color]</td><td>[color=white]3[/color]</td><td>[color=white]2[/color]</td><td>[color=white]= 11[/color]</td> </tr> <tr> <td>[color=white]per day[/color]</td><td>[color=white]3[/color]</td><td>[color=white]3[/color]</td><td>[color=white]1[/color]</td><td>[color=white]= 7[/color]</td> </tr> </table> (assuming both have Cha of at least 14) I guess it's more a question of whether you prefer higher level spells with more variety (and higher caster level) or more lower level spells from a smaller selection. I strongly disagree that the sor3/rog1 is clearly the winner on spells here. You're doing the same thing that most people on gaming boards do with these class "analyses". You pick a couple abilities where the class you want to attack is (ostensibly) weaker, and you ignore the points where it's stronger. That's not analysis; that's just a rationalization of some subjective prejudice. I dunno if a bard scared you when you were a kid or something, but I think you should take another look at this. [/QUOTE]

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