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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 7011872" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>These are the right questions.</p><p></p><p>I think you can do systems without them...but much like some of the other responses, I haven't found any that appeal to me.</p><p></p><p>I think it is because it is natural for people to unconsciously (or consciously) rate other people in personal characteristics. We are aware of how physical, brainy, charming, etc people are, and it informs how we feel about them, how we interact with them, what we expect of them, etc.</p><p></p><p>While mechanical implementation can be done in a variety of ways, if it isn't there, the system seems hollow in some ways. Let's say you have a system where you only define your character in terms of specific words you ascribe to them, with no standard attributes. Okay, it seems cool as far as it goes. It highlights what you feel is important about that character. But if you like to really get into character and project yourself into the fiction in a first person sort of way and want to have your character "look around" so to speak, you are going to want to know what certain other characters are like in standard ways. Does the system just assume that everyone without a particular descriptor such as "Strong as an ox" or "atheletic and graceful" is unremarkable? Or is it something that is to be made up on the spot, but has no mechanical influence on the system since it isn't a formal character trait? I get the feeling that the philosophy of such games tends to be, "you're focusing on the wrong thing if you're worrying about that"...which tells me that while that system might be fun for a fling, I'm unlikely to form a lasting relationship with such a game.</p><p></p><p>So, unlike many other remnants of early game design, I think stats are actually very valuable elements and I can't come up with a better alternative. </p><p></p><p>The trick is to figure out what sorts of stats work for your game. Some games like to ditch the ability score sorts and go only with skills. Others like to do both but have them take up the same design space. So you have Strength and you have Wrestling, but you never use more than one stat for anything--it's your ability score and skill all rolled into one. Personally, I really like the very common innate trait (ability score) + acquired capabilities (skills) methodology. It feels pretty true to real life experience. We talk about people with talent and no skill, or those without talent who become very skillful, etc.</p><p></p><p>One thing that is worth mentioning for purposes of design is that the relative mechanical prominence that you give to such factors will determine part of how characters are perceived of, and how they interact with the world. If innate traits increase your effectiveness more than acquired capabilities, the system is going to subtly encourage focusing on who you are rather than what you do, and vice versa. If you have a lot of traits, it is going to give you the impression of a highly structured system with stronger limits on your character (more defined traits means more things to not be good in), while a system with only a few traits encourages more improvisation and implies you might be accomplished in broad categories.</p><p></p><p>Another thing is that the choices of what traits a system uses highly flavors your system. Just think about how different systems do it and you'll get the idea. Even the names for essentially the same traits can have a psychological impact on the players.</p><p></p><p>So you should probably start by asking what experience you want to create, and then considering how different stats would be contributive or detrimental to that experience.</p><p></p><p>So, like I said, these are the right questions!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 7011872, member: 6677017"] These are the right questions. I think you can do systems without them...but much like some of the other responses, I haven't found any that appeal to me. I think it is because it is natural for people to unconsciously (or consciously) rate other people in personal characteristics. We are aware of how physical, brainy, charming, etc people are, and it informs how we feel about them, how we interact with them, what we expect of them, etc. While mechanical implementation can be done in a variety of ways, if it isn't there, the system seems hollow in some ways. Let's say you have a system where you only define your character in terms of specific words you ascribe to them, with no standard attributes. Okay, it seems cool as far as it goes. It highlights what you feel is important about that character. But if you like to really get into character and project yourself into the fiction in a first person sort of way and want to have your character "look around" so to speak, you are going to want to know what certain other characters are like in standard ways. Does the system just assume that everyone without a particular descriptor such as "Strong as an ox" or "atheletic and graceful" is unremarkable? Or is it something that is to be made up on the spot, but has no mechanical influence on the system since it isn't a formal character trait? I get the feeling that the philosophy of such games tends to be, "you're focusing on the wrong thing if you're worrying about that"...which tells me that while that system might be fun for a fling, I'm unlikely to form a lasting relationship with such a game. So, unlike many other remnants of early game design, I think stats are actually very valuable elements and I can't come up with a better alternative. The trick is to figure out what sorts of stats work for your game. Some games like to ditch the ability score sorts and go only with skills. Others like to do both but have them take up the same design space. So you have Strength and you have Wrestling, but you never use more than one stat for anything--it's your ability score and skill all rolled into one. Personally, I really like the very common innate trait (ability score) + acquired capabilities (skills) methodology. It feels pretty true to real life experience. We talk about people with talent and no skill, or those without talent who become very skillful, etc. One thing that is worth mentioning for purposes of design is that the relative mechanical prominence that you give to such factors will determine part of how characters are perceived of, and how they interact with the world. If innate traits increase your effectiveness more than acquired capabilities, the system is going to subtly encourage focusing on who you are rather than what you do, and vice versa. If you have a lot of traits, it is going to give you the impression of a highly structured system with stronger limits on your character (more defined traits means more things to not be good in), while a system with only a few traits encourages more improvisation and implies you might be accomplished in broad categories. Another thing is that the choices of what traits a system uses highly flavors your system. Just think about how different systems do it and you'll get the idea. Even the names for essentially the same traits can have a psychological impact on the players. So you should probably start by asking what experience you want to create, and then considering how different stats would be contributive or detrimental to that experience. So, like I said, these are the right questions! [/QUOTE]
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