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<blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 5966638" data-attributes="member: 6678119">Limiting buffs will take casters down a little in some areas, but make them more effective in others.&nbsp; If an enemy's defenses are toned down, spells that don't needs the caster to be buffed will quite handily mop the floor with the now-weaker enemy.If the only benchmark is damage, then fighters might be decent at high levels.&nbsp; There are also builds that can do over 6,000 damage per round, IF they can meet certain requirements such as being able to charge.Yet that pales in comparison to the fact that casters can literally alter reality with a thought.&nbsp; The fighter might kill dozens or hundreds during a battle, but the wizard can shut down the entire battlefield and barely bat an eyelash.&nbsp; At the time a fighter gets his 4th iterative attack, a cleric can plane shift and challenge gods.&nbsp; A DM might cry foul if a fighter made a 100 point attack against a dragon that he had to spend several feats to get, but a caster can essentially kill one with just one 3rd level spell called Shivering Touch and have no repercussions because of caster power.&nbsp; Which one should be nerfed?Are you aware of the Tier system?&nbsp; It is basically a measure of the power level of various classes.&nbsp; <a href="http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0" target="_blank">JaronK's Tier list for classes.</a> is the most recent discussion of that.&nbsp; It basically highlights the nuances of D&amp;D 3.5, most of which are essentially &quot;casters rule.&quot;It would certainly be an interesting thought exercise to nerf stat scaling and buff stacking, but the real problem of 3.X is casters, not the stats themselves.&nbsp; Like I said, mundanes need those stats and buffs to even remotely keep up with well-played casters.&nbsp; Take away those buffs and the casters are laughing even harder at the smoldering pile of a fighter because he simply can't do much against even nerfed caster defenses.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jackinthegreen, post: 5966638, member: 6678119"] Limiting buffs will take casters down a little in some areas, but make them more effective in others. If an enemy's defenses are toned down, spells that don't needs the caster to be buffed will quite handily mop the floor with the now-weaker enemy. If the only benchmark is damage, then fighters might be decent at high levels. There are also builds that can do over 6,000 damage per round, IF they can meet certain requirements such as being able to charge. Yet that pales in comparison to the fact that casters can literally alter reality with a thought. The fighter might kill dozens or hundreds during a battle, but the wizard can shut down the entire battlefield and barely bat an eyelash. At the time a fighter gets his 4th iterative attack, a cleric can plane shift and challenge gods. A DM might cry foul if a fighter made a 100 point attack against a dragon that he had to spend several feats to get, but a caster can essentially kill one with just one 3rd level spell called Shivering Touch and have no repercussions because of caster power. Which one should be nerfed? Are you aware of the Tier system? It is basically a measure of the power level of various classes. [URL="http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0"]JaronK's Tier list for classes.[/URL] is the most recent discussion of that. It basically highlights the nuances of D&D 3.5, most of which are essentially "casters rule." It would certainly be an interesting thought exercise to nerf stat scaling and buff stacking, but the real problem of 3.X is casters, not the stats themselves. Like I said, mundanes need those stats and buffs to even remotely keep up with well-played casters. Take away those buffs and the casters are laughing even harder at the smoldering pile of a fighter because he simply can't do much against even nerfed caster defenses. [/QUOTE]

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