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<blockquote data-quote="Sekhmet" data-source="post: 5967125" data-attributes="member: 97602">- Being useful and having fun are often two different things. In core, Bards and Fighters are fun, doesn't make them useful.&nbsp;- Damage dealing feats are late-chain feats. Removing their reach weapon and reducing their ability to trip prevents them from dealing significant damage, that is if you actually manage to get near enough to trip anything in the first place.&nbsp;What combat doesn't end in under five rounds? Also, I said -replaced-, not -useless-. They're unnecessary, because they've been replaced by a spell.&nbsp;In that quote, I said &quot;effective&quot;. You don't need to hyper-optimize a caster to make it oodles more useful than a Fighter, but you do need to optimize a Fighter to hold his weight in a group after about level 6.&nbsp;If you can't make the Balance check, you can't move inside of a Grease spell.&nbsp; If you fail your check by 5 or more, you fall prone. With their heavy armor, few skill points, and Balance not on their class list anyway, they'll have a very difficult time making that check.&nbsp;Assuming they can even make it to the caster. &nbsp;There isn't any bending involved. Playing strictly by the book is all that is necessary. &nbsp;Casters are more able to deal with surprise scenarios than Fighters, too. A Fighter who loses 80% of his resources is down to 20% HP and almost out of consumables. A caster teleports home and rests for a night in his safe, warm bed.&nbsp;Casters generally have great Will saves, making Silence ineffective in targeting them. &nbsp;Also, I like that you're trying to counter casters with casters, because that is the only effective way to do it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sekhmet, post: 5967125, member: 97602"] - Being useful and having fun are often two different things. In core, Bards and Fighters are fun, doesn't make them useful. - Damage dealing feats are late-chain feats. Removing their reach weapon and reducing their ability to trip prevents them from dealing significant damage, that is if you actually manage to get near enough to trip anything in the first place. What combat doesn't end in under five rounds? Also, I said -replaced-, not -useless-. They're unnecessary, because they've been replaced by a spell. In that quote, I said "effective". You don't need to hyper-optimize a caster to make it oodles more useful than a Fighter, but you do need to optimize a Fighter to hold his weight in a group after about level 6. If you can't make the Balance check, you can't move inside of a Grease spell. If you fail your check by 5 or more, you fall prone. With their heavy armor, few skill points, and Balance not on their class list anyway, they'll have a very difficult time making that check. Assuming they can even make it to the caster. There isn't any bending involved. Playing strictly by the book is all that is necessary. Casters are more able to deal with surprise scenarios than Fighters, too. A Fighter who loses 80% of his resources is down to 20% HP and almost out of consumables. A caster teleports home and rests for a night in his safe, warm bed. Casters generally have great Will saves, making Silence ineffective in targeting them. Also, I like that you're trying to counter casters with casters, because that is the only effective way to do it. [/QUOTE]

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