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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jacob Marley" data-source="post: 5968099" data-attributes="member: 89537"> The problem is that gaming experiences are unique. The context of those experiences matter. Everything from the make-up of the party, the number of players, the level of optimization of the characters, and the strategic/tactical/logistical decisions made by the players will affect how useful any given character class is (perceived?). Add to the fact that as a DM I can have an incredible effect on the outcome of any given encounter/adventure/campaign through how I frame the scene(s), how I design the challenge(s), how optimized I build the enemies, how I play those enemies at the table, and how I distribute treasure, etc. For example: If I, as a DM, increase the amount of mindless undead in my campaigns I am increasing the utility of any class with Turn Undead and decreasing the utility of Illusion and Enchantment spells. If I do this with a party containing a Cleric, a Fighter, a Rogue, and a Wizard (Enchanter) I will likely have made the Rogue and Wizard less effective compared to the Cleric and Fighter. Note: I am not sure why the idea of PvP is relevant to determining how balanced two classes are with each other. Even in an edition as ostensibly balanced as 4th Edition is, PvP is viewed as a poor method of determining that class balance. Any striker is going to beat any defender, leader, or controller the majority of the time. And yet, people generally don't complain about 4th Edition characters being unbalanced. I think a better method for determine character class balance/utility would be to build two parties and run them each through the same encounters. The only difference between the two parties would be one would contain a fighter whereas the other would contain whatever class you wanted to compare the fighter to. Then you can go back over the notes of the campaign and determine if, where, and when the fighter was more/less useful than the class it is being compared to.</blockquote>

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