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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 3811318" data-attributes="member: 7808">I would say that a sleeping character is neither conscious nor unconscious.One rules point that I can show to back this up is one that ericpat pointed out.  "A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy."  This makes a distinction between being sleeping an unconscious.  This exact quote comes from the Abilities and Conditions section of the SRD, but is repeated in a number of places.  The second rule that I can quote is the definition of unconscious, which is defined as "Knocked out and helpless."  Personally, I would not consider sleeping the be the same thing as "knocked out."A third rule that supports sleeping being different than unconscious is that a sleeping character can make listen checks at a -10 penalty, and can wake up if they make their check.  Obviously, a character that is knocked out (from, say, excesssive nonlethal damage) cannot simply make a listen check and wake up.As for the Sleep spell example, I'll admit that the fact that Sleep doesn't work on unconscious targets is an implication that goes against the implications I've shown above.  At the same time, though, it makes sense to me that a wizard might want to cast Sleep on an already (mundanely) sleeping target to ensure that the target is in a very deep sleep.  Note that "normal noise" cannot awaken a Sleeping character, but the listen DC of people talking at normal volume (what I would consider "normal noise") is DC 0, and can wake up an average person about half the time.In actual game play, I would rule as a DM that sleeping is not the same as unconscious, but wouldn't really have a problem as a player if a DM ruled they were the same.  I would, however, insist that the sleeping character gets some sort of check to stop a spell.  A listen check to know that someone is creeping on you is explicitly allowed by the rules.  Getting a will save at a penalty for being less-than-conscious would also be reasonable.  I also think that a DM would be justified in modifying the rolls based on character type and situation; a sneeky rogue napping in the middle of a scouting mission probably sleeps much lighter than a fighter who has returned home from a long battle (wearing heavy armor, swinging a two-handed axe, and marching all day).  I'm pretty sure that my real-life listen penalty for awakening due to noise should be much more than just -10.</blockquote>

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