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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dross" data-source="post: 5431861" data-attributes="member: 33802">Water Bob, I'm confused, I think that you are trying to say that it does not matter who gets initiative in the first round, delaying to go first in the 2nd round is usually/typically better. I disagree (apologies but this ended up being long-winded)Once an order is determined and you run through the first round, the combat sequence is like a carousel, A-B-C-D-E-F-A-B-C-D etc. By the 2nd round everyone is reactive to the person acting before them and forcing those acting after them to react, which means that A reacts to the actions of F even though F is reacting to the actions of A.what point on the carousel is it better to be on?Alternatively you have stated that Paraphrasing arcseed in post 24 (remember there cannot be any simultaneous hits, someone MUST go first) using your 2 equal fightersF2 wins nishround 1: F2 hits, F1 delaysround 2: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 3: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 4: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 5: F1 hits, F2 hits F1 dies, despite having init 4/5 times.If F1 does not delayround 1: F2 hits, F1 hitsround 2: F2 hits, F1 hitsround 3: F2 hits, F1 hitsround 4: F2 hits, F1 hitsround 5: F2 hits, F1 hits F1 dies. Only change is to not have init at any stage.F1 wins nish (and no I don't believe that this is terribly realistic for 1 on 1, with teammates however.....)round 1: F1 delays, F2 hits round 2: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 3: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 4: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 5: F1 hits, F2 hits F1 dies, despite having init every round.If F1 had improved initiative to have him win nish (which by your estimation makes F1 weaker as he has apparently wasted a feat):round 1: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 2: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 3: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 4: F1 hits, F2 hitsround 5: F1 hits, F2 hits F2 diesWinning initiative in the first round determined which fighter stays alive (F1 gave his advantage away when he delayed in winning nish in round 1). That is why people say having initiative in the first round is more important than in later rounds. Which is Vegepygmy's (response 28 specifically) and others point.This makes the assumption that the two started out in range together (as you did post #22, otherwise it is only 1 attack in the first round because of movement).Delaying until the other person enters melee range can be advantageous (personally I'd prefer the ready action for this situation as you will get in the first blow: you ready, he moves, you attack once, he attacks once, you attack 2 he attacks 2) but usually only if other people can act to boost you (see below).To use Tass, Gandalf, conan, Orc, Ogre exampleIf Tass had initiative before the orc or Ogre (and assuming that he could use it), he would get sneak attack on a flat-footed foe, possibly removing that foe before it acts. If he delays to be first in the next round then a lucky blow might fell Conan or Gandlaf before Tass acts again (thus he would have to react to the new situation despite being having nish in the new round). And no sneak attack in round 1 may force at least 1 more round of combat.If Tass does not have a higher nish, then delaying to go after Gandalf or Conan might be worthwhile (of course it might not, it is situation dependent, such as flanking from Conan or a buff from Gandalf), but usually hurting an opponent now is usually better than hurting an opponent next round.But the big assumption everyone seems to have made (maybe just to answer your specific Q) is that you must delay to have nish in subsequent rounds. The real boost from delay is that you delay, get a boost from your teammate (i.e. flanking or buff ) and act before your foe gets its actions. That does not require you to have nish in each round.</blockquote>

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