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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Axel" data-source="post: 5431896" data-attributes="member: 93196">Initiative does count for melee types that don't start in reach of each other, or mixed parties of melee'ers and spellcasters. To extend the example of two 6th level fighters, that start at 10' distance.  Some possible scenarios:Fighter 1:  Move, standard action attackFighter 2:  Full attack.Fighter 1:  Fulll attacketc...   Net result:  1 attack extra for whoever has just completed their turn.  If Fighter 2 has a weapon with a good critical range, or fights intelligently with a trip or disarm maneuver he/she may be able to disable Fighter 1 (or damage them enough to win by attrition) by virtue of having rolled twice as many dice in the first turn. Fighter 1:  DelayFighter 2:  Move, standard action attack.Fighter 1:  Delayed action: standard attack Fighter 2:  Full attackFighter 1:  Full attack Net result:  Fighter 1 has surrendered their "first strike" and basically stuffed themself into the bargain.  Fighter 2 will always have the same as, or more, attacks than Fighter 1.  It's only worthwhile to delay if you started them, say, 70' apart (not capable of being crossed with a Charge move). If Fighter 1 and 2 are also engaged with Cleric 1 and 2 on their respective sides, the equation changes again.  Say the initative is Figher 1, Fighter 2, Cleric 1, Cleric 2.Fighter 1:  Move, standard action attack.Fighter 2:  DelayCleric 1:  Move, standard action spell buff.Cleric 2:  Standard action spell buff.Fighter 2:  Delayed action, buffed attack!Fighter 1:  Buffed full attack.Cleric 1:  Heal Net result:  Fighter 2 got the better of round 1 by virtue of having a buffed attack (or debuffed opponent).  If the starting distances are greater, Fighter 1 may have stuffed themselves by moving outside the range of Cleric 1's spells (particularly if the Cleric only has a 20' move). Delaying is a valid tactic at times but its use is, IME, very situational.  You need to think through how the round might play out - getting in before am opposed spellcaster casts Radiant Assault, or Forecage, or some other "I win" spell can be crucial if you're the only one acting before them.  Othertimes it is worthwhile delaying for a Mass Bull's Strength, or Wall of Fire, or your opponent to fall into the intervening pit trap you have cleverly setup.</blockquote>

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