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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4685030" data-attributes="member: 82106">I guess I am not sure where this assertion comes from. The Stealth rules specifically state that you need total concealment or superior cover in order to hide (use Stealth). There does not appear to be a rule about "enemies which are not alert". DMG 36 does define alertness levels for monsters, but in terms of stealth all it does is provide modifiers to the perception check for the monsters. The last part of the section, on p37 provides some general rules for handling the 'party approaching a door' scenario. The upshot of this whole section is that lack of alertness on the monster's part never guarantees that someone is hidden, even a distracted monster will always see an opponent in the clear unless the DM rules that it is 'looking elsewhere'. In the spirit of DMG 37 it stands to reason that monsters would get a passive or active perception check in all cases.This whole matter, the state of someone out of sight but not using Stealth, is really the biggest grey area left in the whole hiding/Stealth mechanics. The DMG seems to imply that one can effectively 'be hidden' without an actual Stealth roll if there is blocking terrain like a door or corner, but that still begs the question of what the DC is for monsters to detect them. A DC25 is stated for monsters hearing a party "moving at normal speed and making no attempt at stealth" through a door. Generalizing this would perhaps give the monsters a DC20 or even DC15 when a corner is involved. The odd part about all this is that were the PCs to use Stealth to approach a door, they might well actually get LESS than a 25 on their roll (use the worst character's stealth skill, +5 for the intervening door). Thus (at low levels anyway) a party would likely be better off just walking up to the door and not trying to sneak.My feeling is that this is the one area of stealth which could profitably use some better house rules. The numbers in the 'listening through a door' table at the very end of the section also seem a bit oddball. Shouldn't a door present a symmetrical situation WRT a party? One way to look at that is the DC25 for monsters to perceive a party is the same as the DC25 in the table where detecting "Quite conversation, whispers" is DC25. Thus extrapolating would give us a DC10 if the party is engaging in 'normal conversation'. The only part of that table which really bothers me is the last entry DC35 for 'battle preparations'. Seems odd that arming for battle makes you likely significantly stealthier than actual use of Stealth skill would.I would be tempted to recast this entire issue as simply "you use your stealth skill and there are modifiers based on the activity you are performing". That would get rid of the situations where it is actually a bad idea to use Stealth.</blockquote>

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