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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5219766" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, what you really want to do is just assign your required Perception DCs in such a way as to get what you want. So for a trap for instance it could be 'obvious' (DC is low enough that any party which isn't blind will see it with a passive check). It could be 'hidden' (DC is high enough that only the high Perception character will detect it and may even need an active check). It could be impossibly well hidden such that nobody can find it even with an active check. The trick is for the DM to understand which of these choices serves the particular purpose of the plot which said trap was intended for.In terms of monsters the best thing to do is note the max Perception bonus of a group of monsters. If they have no reason to be alert then add ten and let the party try to beat that with their worst check (remember doors and distance make detection harder). If the monsters are alert then have the best monster make an active check, if its better than his passive then use that.For groups of PCs you can use the check of the least stealthy member of the group, or you can use a group skill check (which DMG2 suggests). Either one may be appropriate in different situations. For the most part surprise is going to be something the DM is going to heavily mediate. Most normal monsters aren't going to sneak up on a party and most parties aren't going to manage to sneak up on most monsters unless they have an idea they're there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5219766, member: 82106"] Well, what you really want to do is just assign your required Perception DCs in such a way as to get what you want. So for a trap for instance it could be 'obvious' (DC is low enough that any party which isn't blind will see it with a passive check). It could be 'hidden' (DC is high enough that only the high Perception character will detect it and may even need an active check). It could be impossibly well hidden such that nobody can find it even with an active check. The trick is for the DM to understand which of these choices serves the particular purpose of the plot which said trap was intended for. In terms of monsters the best thing to do is note the max Perception bonus of a group of monsters. If they have no reason to be alert then add ten and let the party try to beat that with their worst check (remember doors and distance make detection harder). If the monsters are alert then have the best monster make an active check, if its better than his passive then use that. For groups of PCs you can use the check of the least stealthy member of the group, or you can use a group skill check (which DMG2 suggests). Either one may be appropriate in different situations. For the most part surprise is going to be something the DM is going to heavily mediate. Most normal monsters aren't going to sneak up on a party and most parties aren't going to manage to sneak up on most monsters unless they have an idea they're there. [/QUOTE]

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