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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5225207" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, this kind of thing is sort of under the control of the DM.  DMG page 36 has some guidelines/rules for this kind of "non-combat stealth". These rules are a bit oddball though. The door rule for instance says monsters hear the party through a door on a DC25 Perception check. If the PCs use Stealth, then they get a +5 to their check. The problem is this may actually be WORSE than not using Stealth at all! Still, we can draw some conclusions, its better to be further away, quieter, and have barriers like doors between you and the monsters if you want to sneak around and surprise them.On top of this DMG2 has a few more things to say. It provides the option to use a Group Skill Check for the party's Stealth. It also states that a PC more than 10 squares from the rest of the group gets their own individual Stealth check. Its really going to be up to the DM to decide how this works overall. A rogue sneaking up on a monster who is more than 10 squares from the party gets his own individual Stealth check. Its possible a monster could hear the party and not the rogue, but it also seems pretty reasonable for the DM to allow some level of ability for the party to move close. The Stealth rules really don't go into a significant amount of detail on what the relationship is between the environment and Stealth. Beyond the "-2 at 10 or more squares" it is silent on any other possible considerations, aside from the -5 door penalty. What if the area the monsters are in is fairly noisy for instance? An orc lair probably has a fair amount of normal activity going on. Even guards might well not be alarmed to hear footsteps unless they're on high alert. Distractions of other kinds aren't covered either, like what happens if the wizard uses a cantrip to attract the guard's attention? Does that have an impact on their ability to detect the rogue sneaking past them on the other side of the room? All of this is up to the DM obviously. Really if you boil it all down Stealth use and surprise are pretty much up to the DM. The players can certainly create conditions under which they can gain surprise, but they will always have to rely on the DM's interpretation of the situation as to exactly what they can accomplish.</blockquote>

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