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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9640694" data-attributes="member: 22779">Which is exactly what I said.  Invisible means you cannot be seen.  It does not mean you cannot be found at all.  If you are invisible for whatever reason, the baddies know where you are.  Taking the Stealth Action allows you to hide your actual location.  Again, this is the most rational ruling I can see.Pretty much common sense and just looking at the rules.  I looked at the rules in the PHB under conditions where it lists the effects of being invisible.  Simply being invisible does not mean that you are undetected.  It simply means you cannot be seen for some reason - obscurement, darkness, magic, bad weather, magic.  Whatever.  The Hide Action is listed on page 368 of the PHB and tells me that when I hide, I gain the invisible condition (meaning I cannot be seen or targetted by LOS effects) AND I can be found with a Perception (Wisdom) check with a DC based on my check.  Seems pretty straight forward to me.  The problem is that people want to rule that the invisible condition means more than it says.  The enemy can only find me under certain listed conditions.I fail to see why this is complicated.I think it's more that people want to make things a lot more complicated than they need to be.  There's nothing complicated here.  Make the check (DC 15) and you are no longer "seeable" if that's a word, by anyone who doesn't take an action to make a Perception check.  The check is only allowable in some circumstances, typically ruled by the DM.  I've been watching people try to turn themselves into knots for years over something so basically simple as this.  It's really mind blowing how complicated people want to make this.  Sorry folks, this is what RULINGS NOT RULES means.  This is what you wanted.  You demanded this.  You don't now get to bitch about getting what you wanted.  4e had perfectly serviceable stealth rules (which, frankly, is mostly where my own rulings come from) that were 100% rejected.  So, no, too bad.  You refused to accept explicit game rules.  You made the bed, now lie in it.</blockquote>

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