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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5246169" data-attributes="member: 42582">If a creature is invisible and is hidden, then (i) other characters have to guess where it is via the &quot;targetting a square&quot; rule, and (ii) it has total concealment to those who can't detect invisible via truesight, tremorsense etc (ie -5 to hit with ranged and melee even if you guess the right square).If a creature is invisible but not hidden, then (i) above does not apply - other characters know its location - but (ii) does apply - ie it still enjoys total concealment unless truesight etc applies.As to actually concealing on the battlegrid - that's a tricky issue and I'm sure different tables do it different ways. Assuming none of the PCs are aware of the creature's location, I'll not place it and keep my own note of where it is.If some but not all the PCs are aware of its location, then what I do depends a bit - and remember this will come up quite a bit, not only with Darkvision or similar but also if some PCs have better Perception and so notice creatures that are hidden from others. If all the PCs who are likely to interact with it are aware of its location, I'll just put it on the mat. If only some are, I'm more likely to take the relevant players aside and let them know what they see and where, but not actually place a miniature. Once those players have taken their turn, I'll tend to place the miniature because at that point even the PCs from whom the creature is hidden know where to target their attacks - namely, into the same square as their more perceptive colleagues attacked!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5246169, member: 42582"] If a creature is invisible and is hidden, then (i) other characters have to guess where it is via the "targetting a square" rule, and (ii) it has total concealment to those who can't detect invisible via truesight, tremorsense etc (ie -5 to hit with ranged and melee even if you guess the right square). If a creature is invisible but not hidden, then (i) above does not apply - other characters know its location - but (ii) does apply - ie it still enjoys total concealment unless truesight etc applies. As to actually concealing on the battlegrid - that's a tricky issue and I'm sure different tables do it different ways. Assuming none of the PCs are aware of the creature's location, I'll not place it and keep my own note of where it is. If some but not all the PCs are aware of its location, then what I do depends a bit - and remember this will come up quite a bit, not only with Darkvision or similar but also if some PCs have better Perception and so notice creatures that are hidden from others. If all the PCs who are likely to interact with it are aware of its location, I'll just put it on the mat. If only some are, I'm more likely to take the relevant players aside and let them know what they see and where, but not actually place a miniature. Once those players have taken their turn, I'll tend to place the miniature because at that point even the PCs from whom the creature is hidden know where to target their attacks - namely, into the same square as their more perceptive colleagues attacked! [/QUOTE]

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