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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5249586" data-attributes="member: 2011">Key word "eventually".PCs also have Perception rolls. But, it take many levels and two tiers before most of them are capable of even making the Perception roll to spot an invisible target.It might be their job, but like all jobs, it takes years of practice to get really good at it.The concept of "auto-good" at your all aspects of your job right out of the shute breaks my sense of versimiliatude.Accurate enough to drop an area effect with imprecise directions? Sure. Accurate enough to know the exact square if someone who does know where the target is does an attack into that square? Sure.Accurate enough to know the exact square from some vague directions that another player supplies? It depends on the directions. It's an aspect of roleplaying. Rough idea? Sure. Exact square? Typically not. One of four squares, yeah maybe.You idea isn't hard to understand. It's just not very plausible until the PCs have been adventuring for months if not years. It takes a long time to get to that level of communication precision. And the concept that every group of adventurers practices this type of stuff in their spare time is ludicrous as well. Adventurers typically are not Navy Seals. Some adventurers never practice. They just go drink in the bar and have a good time.Additionally, it's not that hard to search. One can do it with movement. The Fighter moves over and into each square. The square he is denied entry into? That's the square.We're not talking something that is an impossible puzzle to solve here. It just takes effort and shouldn't be auto-share of precise knowledge unless there is an obvious and easily precise description like "he's right next to the pillar I am pointing to, along the path I am pointing". But if the foe is in the middle of the room with nothing specific right next to him, it should be a bit of a crap shoot, mostly because language is imprecise.And, invisibility is neutered enough in 4E without making it even more neutered. If you neuter it like this for PCs, you should do the same for NPCs when the PCs go invisible.Note: Hiding in general in 4E has been neutered as well. It's fairly rare to get superior cover or total concealment in the game system in an encounter area without a power. There are very few squares where two of the four corners cannot be spotted in many encounter locations.</blockquote>

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