Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5250015" data-attributes="member: 71571">And at no point do they ever get the Perception needed to negate total concealment.True.  Some of those years are called 'character background'.We're not talking about 'auto-good'.  We're talking about 'bare minimum to succeed.'  You're talking elite special forces, I'm talking boot camp. No one debates that, area effects don't need a spotter if you have a general idea of the 15 foot by 15 foot area an enemy might be in.Indeed'Exact' square is a misnomer.  You're making it sound like 'square' is an exact location, but it is not.  You have to be a super fattie in order for a 5 foot by 5 foot area be your 'exact location'.Like, that's pretty wide, dude.We call those people 'dragon food.'  Dude, these guys kill dragons and armies of kobolds for a living.  It's not realistic to assume that they manage to execute military tactics without practice, or even a modicum of discussion.Hell, if your party has a warlord, I'm not buying any argument starting with 'they don't do tactics'.  That's like a party with a wizard going 'We never cast spells.'It's not believable.That is one way to find a hidden creature.  But we are not talking about a hidden creature.  We are talking about a creature that failed its stealth check, not one that made its stealth check/The elven ranger pulled back his arrow... and let fly his shaft into the chest of the invisible assailent.  Red blood started to pour from the arrow that was hiding in mid-air.  The elf then turned to the fighter and said 'There.'Invisibility should never have been 'you are automatically unfindable by anything ever.'  It should never have required spells or magic to even -begin- to pierce.  The rule is very simple... if you're invisible, you can try to sneak around and cover your tracks.  But if you fail, they can still hear you or see your foot prints or what have you.The previous rule was 'You really can't do it in combat unless you have one class feature... but don't bother cause the class not based on hiding can do it better automatically'  Now its 'If you can get out of their sight, you can certainly try to start your sneaking around.'To neuter something means to make it less potent.  Making something usable in combat is not a neuter... it's a buff.  If it's rare to get such cover or concealment, perhaps you should design your encounters closer to the guidelines given in the Fourth Edition Dungeon Masters Guide.  It suggests that you should have more opportunities for cover, and concealment, for both players and monsters.  Any problems attaining this are solely encounter design problems, and it is not reasonable to claim the edition is the problem.Not every encounter will have it, but it certainly should not be uncommon.</blockquote>

Verification