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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5250335" data-attributes="member: 2011">Conan. Lord of the Rings. Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.These characters rarely practiced in the novels.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafhrd_and_the_Gray_Mouser" target="_blank">Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>"They spend a lot of time drinking, feasting, wenching, brawling, stealing, and gambling, and are seldom fussy about who hires their swords."The history of the genre doesn't match your "Navy Seals" POV.Tanis mostly just shouted out orders and everyone was expected to follow them if they wanted to live. They didn't practice too much if at all in the novels either. At least not together. Caramon worked out by himself, but they didn't do it as a group.Yup. I already said multiple times that if someone who knows the square targets it with an attack, everyone should know. You appear to be arguing just to argue, either that or not reading what I write.In a big noisy fight, not so much. In a quiet church, sure. It's a matter of plausibility. I prefer to have a DM make sensible decisions and not be a rules robot if it doesn't make sense. Even an invisible peasant should be able to fairly quietly and slowly move past a big combat as long as he keeps his mouth shut.Feel free to post good sample images of this out of WotC material cause I have to tell you, the PHB2 rules make it seem like this is often out of the question. I have yet to see a lot of encounter areas out of WotC material, hand made encounter material by other DMs whose group I am playing in, or in hand made encounter material that I make for my groups that allow for stealth. The stealth rules are just too stringent any more. It used to be concealment or cover to get into stealth. Now, it's total concealment or superior cover.Although that seems more reasonable, it's a lot more difficult to achieve in actual game practice because of how the grid cover system works. Yeah, if you have a 15x15 pillar in the room, the Rogue might be able to hide behind it. But, even something as big as a 10x10 pillar is hard to get superior cover behind from many angles.As the attachment illustrates, it's easy for the two orcs to see the two squares behind the pillar because the two corners of those squares are visible. If the Rogue is at the left square behind the pillar, she has cover from Orc 1 and superior cover from Orc 2 and vice versa if she is at the right square.It's not impossible to get superior cover, but in many circumstances, it's extremely difficult.</blockquote>

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