Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="MyISPHatesENWorld" data-source="post: 4644049" data-attributes="member: 65684">Yeah, it is a long sentence. Sorry. It's a little complex, and I talk about Stealth a lot on these forums and sometimes I assume things that were discussed a lot in other threads are common knowledge.  I think we are saying the same thing here. Using the stealth skill at the level in which most monsters can isn't an issue. The problem comes when, because of terrain situations and the ideas proposed by others in the thread to allow the monsters to obfuscate their final location, all monsters are suddenly hiding in a way the players can't duplicate because the terrain to do this tends to favor the monsters.  There are two readings of Fleeting Ghost. One, the RAW reading, is that you move and make a stealth check and on the check you make via the power, you take no penalty for movement. The practical result of that, post-errata, is that if you make the check in a square with any cover or concealment, you're hidden, and remain hidden because you have cover or concealment. The other reading, which is a result of an early Customer Service ruling, is that you just don't take a -5 penalty on stealth checks for movement. Customer service later contradicted that, and when someone presented the contradictory answers, stated that there is no official answer and that they would pass it on for an FAQ or update. There hasn't been an FAQ or update so far, and in the accidental release of propsed updates in the compendium, none was listed for Fleeting Ghost. A proposed update was listed for Shadow Stride, which was included in the last update, as well as Chameleon, which wasn't included in the last update. Martial power introduced the language of "If you have any cover or concealment after this shift, you can make a Stealth check as a free action." It is in the 7th level encounter power, From the Shadows, which allows a rogue to shift 2 squares while remaining hidden, make an attack with combat advantage, then shift and hide again. As that is a standard action, the rogue could then move stealthily (aka sneak) to another location other than that in which he made his Stealth check. It is the closest thing to what the houserules would allow anyone using the Stealth skill to do (hide at the end of a move with nobody being aware of your location without needing to expend an action or something).From the Shadows is also redundant in its phrasing with regard to gaining combat advantage, as that is part of the revised Stealth rules stating you retain the benefits of being hidden until you complete your action.A recent Dragon inroduced a paragon power allowing one to move and make a hide check after spending an action point with the additional line of, "(provided you have superior cover or total concealment from that target when you end your movement)." And Shadow Stride no reads: "You must be hidden to use this power. You can move your speed and must end your movement in a space where you can remain hidden. Then make a Stealth check with no penalty for moving. If the check succeeds, you remain hidden during the movement, even if you have no cover or concealment during it." So there remains precedent that limitations on a check would be included in a power description.In a game using the RAW reading of Fleeting Ghost, rogues can hide more often, which balances out the way that monsters are easy to place in locations that allow them to use stealth whenever the DM wants them to even when they are limited to Superior Cover/Total Concealment.I've been in multiple campaigns/arcs that used the literal reading of Fleeting Ghost, with no balance issues, playing as a rogue or playing with one. Despite making it easier to hide, situations and terrain still conspire to leave a Rogue unable to use Stealth at-will. And since most cover/concealment comes in the field of battle rather than on the edges like Superior Cover and Total Concealment (chuck and duck from the corner/hallway/doorway), it keeps the action more interesting.  The houserules Defcon and vegepygmy mentioned were the houserules to which I was referring. Which was why I posted in the thread without replying to you specifically, but to the thread in general.The fair, by the rules, answer is that they know where the creature moved to, as the creature is not unseen/silent along the path of its movement, but they can't see it. They take a -5 penalty on attacks that they can make (that aren't area attacks). So, even hearing/seeing the rustle of branches as the creature moved into a new position, the characters have some real limitations on what they can do to the hidden target. This is particularly true for rogues and other martial characters whose area effect powers contain the "you can see" requirement in the targeting line. And Rangers can't designate an opponent they can't see as their quarry.</blockquote>

Verification