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<blockquote data-quote="gnfnrf" data-source="post: 5347350" data-attributes="member: 2373">I know this has been done and done and done, and I swear I thought I had it figured out, but things got confusing in my game this afternoon.What does a blind creature need to to to locate the square of an enemy?&nbsp; What can that enemy do to avoid being found?A blind creature &quot;can't see any targets (targets have total concealment)&quot;, in the Compendium glossary, but just &quot;All creatures have total concealment&quot; in the Rules Compendium.&nbsp;&nbsp; You know the location of a target with total concealment, though, unless it is hiding from you, right?&nbsp; I thought this was a rule, but right now, I can only find it for the specific total concealment granted by invisibility.Great, now I'm even more confused.&nbsp; Let me just lay out the situation.There is a blind creature.&nbsp; The ranger moves from somewhere to somewhere within a few squares of it, and shoots someone else.&nbsp; The ranger is not thinking about being stealthy at the time.What must the blind creature do to know the square the ranger occupies? Possibility 1:&nbsp; Nothing.&nbsp; The ranger made an attack, so is not hidden. Possibility 2:&nbsp; The blind creature must make a Perception check.&nbsp; What DC?2A:&nbsp; The DC is set by the ranger's Stealth check.&nbsp; The ranger didn't make one, so the check succeeds.&nbsp; The ranger now makes a Stealth check after every move for the rest of the campaign, (since there is no penalty for doing so), annoying everyone.2B:&nbsp; The DC is set by a retroactive Stealth check for the ranger, in the normal opposed Stealth-Perception system (with the -10 penalty for being blind).&nbsp; The fact that the ranger attacked is ignored.2C:&nbsp; The DC is set differently, since the creature is trying to pinpoint and not merely detect the ranger.Possibility 3:&nbsp; The blind creature cannot see the creature, and no amount of Perception can help him find it.None of these actually make sense to me, and I can't seem to find the rules that would cover it.&nbsp; What happens with creatures that have improved concealment but are not invisible?&nbsp; How do you and don't you know if they are there?Furthermore, in a general sense, is it true that blinded people can still see walls, read, and so forth?&nbsp; The listing of is very specific that you cannot see targets, but doesn't actually mention your vision being impaired in any other way.&nbsp; Is blinded not blind in the traditional sense of the word, or is it assumed that all of the other bits are there, just aren't mentioned in the description? Please help me sort out this muddle.--gnfnrf</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gnfnrf, post: 5347350, member: 2373"] I know this has been done and done and done, and I swear I thought I had it figured out, but things got confusing in my game this afternoon. What does a blind creature need to to to locate the square of an enemy? What can that enemy do to avoid being found? A blind creature "can't see any targets (targets have total concealment)", in the Compendium glossary, but just "All creatures have total concealment" in the Rules Compendium. You know the location of a target with total concealment, though, unless it is hiding from you, right? I thought this was a rule, but right now, I can only find it for the specific total concealment granted by invisibility. Great, now I'm even more confused. Let me just lay out the situation. There is a blind creature. The ranger moves from somewhere to somewhere within a few squares of it, and shoots someone else. The ranger is not thinking about being stealthy at the time. What must the blind creature do to know the square the ranger occupies? Possibility 1: Nothing. The ranger made an attack, so is not hidden. Possibility 2: The blind creature must make a Perception check. What DC? 2A: The DC is set by the ranger's Stealth check. The ranger didn't make one, so the check succeeds. The ranger now makes a Stealth check after every move for the rest of the campaign, (since there is no penalty for doing so), annoying everyone. 2B: The DC is set by a retroactive Stealth check for the ranger, in the normal opposed Stealth-Perception system (with the -10 penalty for being blind). The fact that the ranger attacked is ignored. 2C: The DC is set differently, since the creature is trying to pinpoint and not merely detect the ranger. Possibility 3: The blind creature cannot see the creature, and no amount of Perception can help him find it. None of these actually make sense to me, and I can't seem to find the rules that would cover it. What happens with creatures that have improved concealment but are not invisible? How do you and don't you know if they are there? Furthermore, in a general sense, is it true that blinded people can still see walls, read, and so forth? The listing of is very specific that you cannot see targets, but doesn't actually mention your vision being impaired in any other way. Is blinded not blind in the traditional sense of the word, or is it assumed that all of the other bits are there, just aren't mentioned in the description? Please help me sort out this muddle. -- gnfnrf [/QUOTE]

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