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<blockquote data-quote="kerleth" data-source="post: 6043363" data-attributes="member: 84383">So I've seen a couple of posts mention some confusion with the spot and listen skills. The most common complaint is &quot;Do I make a spot and listen check and see if either one beats their sneak?&quot; or vice versa. I just reread the rules, and this is my take.&nbsp;There are no spot or listen checks. There are also no knowledge checks, climb checks, or sneak checks.&nbsp;According to the rules, when you are trying to notice a hidden creature you make a wisdom check opposed by their dexterity check. &nbsp;According to the rules a skill grants a bonus to any ability check to which it may apply. So if you are trying to detect a hidden creature and you could possibly see him (as opposed to him being on the other side of a wall, for example) then you get to add your spot bonus. If you could possibly hear them, then add listen. That simple.&nbsp;The only real confusion is if you could add the bonus from both spot and listen if you had both. Let's rephrase the question. You come across a religous artifact with mystical powers belonging to a dark cult. Could you add the bonus from your forbidden lore, arcane lore, and religous lore? (I liked that naming scheme better than Knowledge:Arcane, as an aside). Probably not. While I agree that they should clarify that you can't stack multiple skill bonuses, that is not an issue exclusive to sneak, spot, and listen. It also takes only about one sentence to clear up, so no biggie.&nbsp;In short, I think the confusion comes not from the new rules system, but from our old habits. Many of us (myself included) are used to thinking of things in terms of skill checks, rather than ability checks with bonuses. As soon as you look at the rules as written, they make perfect sense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kerleth, post: 6043363, member: 84383"] So I've seen a couple of posts mention some confusion with the spot and listen skills. The most common complaint is "Do I make a spot and listen check and see if either one beats their sneak?" or vice versa. I just reread the rules, and this is my take. There are no spot or listen checks. There are also no knowledge checks, climb checks, or sneak checks. According to the rules, when you are trying to notice a hidden creature you make a wisdom check opposed by their dexterity check. According to the rules a skill grants a bonus to any ability check to which it may apply. So if you are trying to detect a hidden creature and you could possibly see him (as opposed to him being on the other side of a wall, for example) then you get to add your spot bonus. If you could possibly hear them, then add listen. That simple. The only real confusion is if you could add the bonus from both spot and listen if you had both. Let's rephrase the question. You come across a religous artifact with mystical powers belonging to a dark cult. Could you add the bonus from your forbidden lore, arcane lore, and religous lore? (I liked that naming scheme better than Knowledge:Arcane, as an aside). Probably not. While I agree that they should clarify that you can't stack multiple skill bonuses, that is not an issue exclusive to sneak, spot, and listen. It also takes only about one sentence to clear up, so no biggie. In short, I think the confusion comes not from the new rules system, but from our old habits. Many of us (myself included) are used to thinking of things in terms of skill checks, rather than ability checks with bonuses. As soon as you look at the rules as written, they make perfect sense. [/QUOTE]

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