Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6070562" data-attributes="member: 23484">Many of these issues were discussed in <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?332925-Paring-the-skill-list" target="_blank">this thread</a>, too.The assumption of many posters there, as here, that too many characters will end up choosing a background that gives training in Perception seems strong enough that it should be countered, and I am leaning towards the belief that Spot, Listen and/or a joined Perception skill just shouldn't be in the game. This removes the perceived "need" for skill training (freeing up possibilities and diversity), but leaves two or three problems that would need to be solved:1. If there are no skills for senses, then Stealth becomes increasingly effective in later levels, and detecting hidden characters significantly more challenging. In some ways, that's the purpose of stealth. And it may be that that's just the case: there's a hidden assassin, and the GM says, "everyone make a Wisdom roll", and the highest of the separate results is compared to the stealth roll. In that case, multiple sentries is a real benefit, but a high-level rogue is still likely able to evade non-magical detection. Still, one feels that someone ought to be able to do something as one rises in levels to increase one's chances to detect opponents. Skill training is an established solution that works conceptually for many players, despite some inconsistencies about what is being trained.2. Elf bonuses, etc. Right now, all elves are trained in Spot and Listen. So we are no longer talking about uber-training of particular senses, we are talking about any other race achieving what every elf always has. The skill training is excessive, but toned down it could still exist: e.g. "Elves get advantage on Wisdom rolls to detect hidden creatures." or something. That, at least, sets the model for other races and their senses, and permits conditional modifiers (e.g. to detect a certain species, when underground, at night, etc.).(For someone who wanted enhanced senses, one could add a feat that allowed you to add you skill die to perception rolls (or something like that to give to hunting dogs, Gnolls, dragons, etc.).)I think this is a bigger problem than just twiddling a single knob. The solution I would like to see would require a combination of a number of things:a. remove Spot and Listen from the skill set. (That requires a solution to the above two problems, which is doable, but not there yet)b. reduce the number of opportunities for hiding within combat. c. develop "enhanced senses" (like the Scent ability in 3.X) for certain creatures (but not normally available to PCs)d. combine Track and Search into a single skill (called...?), rolling Wisdom to Track and Intelligence to Search.</blockquote>

Verification