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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 4389618" data-attributes="member: 71699">Having given exhaustive consideration to RAW, CSRs, designer remarks, and the FAQ, here's what I'm moving toward for Stealth. Much of this is RAI (assumed lasting-condition), but some items are unavoidably contentious. I've chosen to retain the wiser interpretation, wherever several are possible. Your feedback is really appreciated. 1. If you have cover, concealment, or a diversion from any source against your enemies, you can use stealth provided your DM deems the given situation appropriate. Allies usually aren't appropriate cover for stealth; they don't provide cover in your turn. Carrying a light source prevents you from hiding. 2. You hide using a minor action, or a power or skill other than stealth that explicitly grants a check; or as part of a move action, at the end of that action. 3. If your enemies are capable of team-work and can communicate, compare your check result to the highest passive Perception amongst them. You are hidden from all of them if you roll equal or higher than that. You are not hidden from any of them if you don't. 4. If your enemies are incapable of team-work or cannot communicate compare your roll to each of their passive Perceptions individually. You can be hidden to some and not others. 5. Being hidden means that enemies who are not alert to your presence don't become alert to you, you have combat advantage, and you have displacement (on yourself only) against ranged and melee attacks. If you hid as part of a move action, you are not hidden until your final square. 6. Enemies who are alert to you can attack and try to spot you. They can make active Perception checks in their turns using minor actions. You are no longer hidden to any enemy who rolls equal or higher than your stealth check, or hits you with a ranged or melee attack. Once an enemy spots you, they may share information in the same way as 3. or 4. above. 7. Enemies who aren't alert to you can't attack or try to spot you. They become alert to you anytime you stop hiding in sight of one of them. 8. Your hidden condition ends as an immediate reaction if you attack, shout, take an immediate or opportunity attack action, or choose to stop hiding. 9. Your hidden condition ends as an immediate interrupt when you lose cover or concealment from one or more of your enemies or create a light source, unless you were taking one of the actions listed in 8. above. 10. You are never hidden from your allies. Relevant modifiers to keep in mind are penalties to Perception due to interposing lightly obscured squares (-5), penalties on attacks due to cover (-2), and penalties on ranged or melee attacks due to concealment (-2, stacks with cover). Superior Cover or Total Concealment on top of stealth places you under those rules on PHB188, and in addition your enemies may have to pick squares as described on PHB281. [sblock=What is RAI?]Good question. I use the following guidelines to intent in formulating the above wordings a. Powers are intended to be the main focus of combat. Even for Rogues. b. Rogues are intended to get CA for Sneak Attack most rounds. Stealth isn't the only way to do that. Their own and buddies powers and tactics should contribute. c. Stealth is intended to produce a lasting hidden condition that can span actions and turns. You can hunker down and hide quietly for an hour, if you want to. d. It is intended that you can dart from open into cover or concealment, and end up hidden. I believe it is also intended that you can be hidden during each square of your movement, but I can't find a good way to word that given the transient conditions that may apply to each square in conjunction with the possibility of interrupts.[/sblock][sblock=1. Cover or Concealment] Most uses of stealth require cover in your turn, but you can use cover from allies with immediate interrupt actions to ranged attacks against you. You don't need to start your turn with cover or concealment to use stealth as part of a move action.[/sblock][sblock=2. Minor Action or End of Movement] I am in the 'lasting condition' camp for stealth: hiding can extend from action to action and turn to turn. Unfortunately, it is both complex and buggy to run stealth over the span of a move action. It is clean in play and fair in practice to use the ruling I give, but sometimes stealth users will want to make a move entirely hidden. If they do, they should use a minor action first, then move. No one implements the RAW of the first line of the Stealth block literally, because no one allows spamming Stealth checks in opponent's turns as part of Free actions. Therefore no one has real guidance from RAW as to what to allow.[/sblock][sblock=3. Highest Passive] They freely share information concerning spotted hiders. If even one of them spots you, you're not hidden[/sblock][sblock=4. Incapable of Team Work]For this kind of enemy, you might like to assume a narrow field of interest as well: then you can simply ignore any who aren't interested in what the stealther is doing. [/sblock][sblock=5. Hidden] 'Choose a square to attack, using whatever information you've gleaned...'? If the rules do something, they shouldn't hide it. Displacement emulates your DM using some fair or random method to decide what squares your enemies pick. It's the level 16 Wizard utility power. If you decide Displacement doesn't work for you, you'll need to introduce steps to pick squares, and you'll have to decide what, if any, difference is caused by having Superior Cover or Total Concealment on top of stealth.[/sblock][sblock=6. Alert Enemies] If displacement saves you, go ahead and assume they didn't guess what square you were in.[/sblock][sblock=7. Enemies Who Aren't Alert] They don't know you're there so shouldn't react to you, but maybe one will get lucky and walk past your cover.[/sblock][sblock=8. and 9. Stop Hiding] Has to end some time. Note that if you decide you want to run stealth square-by-square for movement, this will get complicated.[/sblock][sblock=10. Allies] Once in a while it's fun to run a full-fledged stealth mission, but ignoring information plainly in front of them can distract players from your main adventure. If your sneakers want to hide for combat advantage several times every encounter you might prefer not to make that an effort for everyone else.[/sblock]  -vk</blockquote>

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