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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 4394467" data-attributes="member: 71699">Here's an example of a problematical case for granting hide checks off move actions. Rogue attacks and then wants to move six squares, passing adjacent to an enemy on square three and provoking an OA, and then to an enemy Fighter on square five, also provoking an OA. Squares one, two, three, and four are in cover. Square five is in open. Square six is in cover. If the Fighter's OA hits the Rogue, then the Rogue stops moving in an open square and can't hide. If the Fighter's OA misses, Rogue continues on to cover and can hide. The question to be answered is what state Rogue is in when passing that first enemy, since if that state is hidden then that enemy's basic melee attack will need to follow special rules. One would have to rule that hiding doesn't span the entire move action, and that hiding occurs only at the very instant the move action ends. Let's say you rule that way. Now Rogue attacks then wants to move six squares through c/c. Again there are enemies adjacent to squares three and five. Now here's a problem. Rogue isn't hidden until square six! So despite Rogue wanting to be hidden for their whole move action made through qualifying squares, that isn't possible because we've ruled hiding with a move action does not span that move action. Or let's say square five does have c/c, and while Rogue intended to move six squares, they stopped short due to the Fighter's OA. Do we let them hide with their move action, since it was intended to have that use and they are now at the (unexpected) end of the action? I'd have to say no. Finally, a similar situation, but Rogue needs to move hidden through five squares to a sixth square that is in open. Again, a move action is no good given our ruling, since that magical last square doesn't qualify for hiding. Each problem guides me toward feeling that the intent is not quite being grasped correctly, and I find counter-intuitive the ruling that even though you can hide with a move action, an entire move through c/c wouldn't be hidden. Only the final square. Making hiding a minor solves this, and related problems. Completely. And to make explicit something we've tacitly acknowledged, everyone has already assumed the intent of the first line of the Stealth block is not what it literally says. No one I know of has yet come forth and stated they let Rogues hide off Free actions. Redbeard that is my answer re: your point about the RAW. Everyone is hunting for the intent. I feel that 'hide using a minor action, or a power or skill other than Stealth that explicitly grants a check' makes a good stab at it. -vk</blockquote>

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