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<blockquote data-quote="MarkB" data-source="post: 4395846" data-attributes="member: 40176">Did you actually read what I wrote?Stealth checks are made as part of the action you want to perform stealthily. If you make a Stealth check as part of dropping an item then you drop the item without anyone noticing you do it - and that is all.If you want to use a Stealth check to actually invoke the Hidden condition, then you must make the check as part of the action you take to hide - such as moving into hiding, through or into cover or concealment.&nbsp;Fleeting Ghost lets you move more than 2 squares and make a Stealth check with no penalty as part of that movement. How is that diminished by making the check as part of your movement, and having it come into effect at the end of your move? What benefit is gained by using the minor action instead?Shadow Stride lets a hidden rogue move from cover to cover, making a Stealth check that kicks in at the end of his movement. If he succeeds, he was unseen during his move.That's a weird power in any case, since if you fail your check and there was something an enemy could have done if they'd seen you mid-move, you effectively have to roll back time and let them interrupt you. But it actually conforms to my view better than yours (the Stealth check is made at the end of the move, and doesn't require any separate action), and adding a minor action wouldn't lessen its paradox-like behaviour or make it any more effective.Now please, do tell me how the lack of requirement for a minor action leaves either of these powers 'much diminished'.&nbsp;I didn't think it was necessary to lay out my case in such detail - I assumed that you'd grasp the implications readily enough. Hopefully this will clarify them for you.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MarkB, post: 4395846, member: 40176"] Did you actually read what I wrote? Stealth checks are made as part of the action you want to perform stealthily. If you make a Stealth check as part of dropping an item then you drop the item without anyone noticing you do it - and that is all. If you want to use a Stealth check to actually invoke the Hidden condition, then you must make the check as part of the action you take to hide - such as moving into hiding, through or into cover or concealment. [b]Fleeting Ghost[/b] lets you move more than 2 squares and make a Stealth check with no penalty as part of that movement. How is that diminished by making the check as part of your movement, and having it come into effect at the end of your move? What benefit is gained by using the minor action instead? [b]Shadow Stride[/b] lets a hidden rogue move from cover to cover, making a Stealth check that kicks in at the end of his movement. If he succeeds, he was unseen during his move. That's a weird power in any case, since if you fail your check and there was something an enemy could have done if they'd seen you mid-move, you effectively have to roll back time and let them interrupt you. But it actually conforms to my view better than yours (the Stealth check is made at the end of the move, and doesn't require any separate action), and adding a minor action wouldn't lessen its paradox-like behaviour or make it any more effective. Now please, do tell me how the lack of requirement for a minor action leaves either of these powers 'much diminished'. I didn't think it was necessary to lay out my case in such detail - I assumed that you'd grasp the implications readily enough. Hopefully this will clarify them for you. [/QUOTE]

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