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<blockquote data-quote="MarkB" data-source="post: 4403370" data-attributes="member: 40176">I do, in fact, agree that the only circumstances in which the entirety of the TWYCS rules can be applied exactly as written are when they involve a situation in which one character physically cannot see the other, regardless of Perception checks. I suspect we may disagree upon how to interpret the FAQ's instructions to apply those rules to hidden characters, because there's no clear dividing line as to what should be kept and what should be ditched in that application.The trouble with arguing that TWYCS requires total concealment is that you're not really talking about stealth anymore; if a target is totally concealed, they don't need a stealth check to become hidden - they're hidden already.I'm not even sure whether that line was intended to address targeting issues, or was more about Perception issues. I'd need to see it in context.I'm not quite sure how this response addresses the issue. Presenting another way to achieve effectively total concealment doesn't seem to interact with whether a successful Stealth check within concealment can do so.Incidentally, in the situation you propose, I would rule that a character hunkered down entirely behind solid, opaque cover would have superior cover (-5 to attacks against him) but not total concealment, unless he got right down so that he couldn't see over that cover at all.A character using such cover to make a successful Stealth check could still be hidden from view, even while carefully peering around the cover to maintain situational awareness.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MarkB, post: 4403370, member: 40176"] I do, in fact, agree that the only circumstances in which the entirety of the TWYCS rules can be applied exactly as written are when they involve a situation in which one character physically cannot see the other, regardless of Perception checks. I suspect we may disagree upon how to interpret the FAQ's instructions to apply those rules to hidden characters, because there's no clear dividing line as to what should be kept and what should be ditched in that application. The trouble with arguing that TWYCS requires total concealment is that you're not really talking about stealth anymore; if a target is totally concealed, they don't [i]need[/i] a stealth check to become hidden - they're hidden already. I'm not even sure whether that line was intended to address targeting issues, or was more about Perception issues. I'd need to see it in context. I'm not quite sure how this response addresses the issue. Presenting another way to achieve effectively total concealment doesn't seem to interact with whether a successful Stealth check within concealment can do so. Incidentally, in the situation you propose, I would rule that a character hunkered down entirely behind solid, opaque cover would have superior cover (-5 to attacks against him) but not total concealment, unless he got right down so that he couldn't see over that cover at all. A character using such cover to make a successful Stealth check could still be hidden from view, even while carefully peering around the cover to maintain situational awareness. [/QUOTE]

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