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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Syrsuro" data-source="post: 4399938" data-attributes="member: 58162">After reading multiple threads in the Rules section, and giving strong consideration to how I think it should work in play -and how the RAW can be read to achieve my intentions - here is how I intend to implement stealth. Although I have attempted to justify my Rules with the RAW, there are a few places where I have 'filled in the gaps', as it were. One intended goal, the direct consequence of seeing how my players wanted stealth to work in the game, was to allow the characters to use stealth as it was in the original versions of the game. To quote from the 1st AD&D PHB: Hiding in shadows is the ability to blend into dark areas, to flatten oneself, and by remaining motionless when in sight, to remain unobserved. It is a function of dress and practice. As I read the 4E RAW, this function is completely lost, because if the rogue does not have actual cover or concealment, they cannot use stealth. Note: I have no intend to allow stealthy movement in the absence of cover, only to allow the party to plan and execute ambushes using stealth. In addition to the changes designed to allow this, I have attempted to put my own spin on the RAI in the name of clarity. I have tried to indicate House Rules added for clarity but which are not intended to contradict or add to the existing rules are noted in yellow text, and Rules added to fill perceived gaps in the stealth rules are noted in green text.  Note: For clarity, the following is written with the assumption that the hiding/stealthy character is a rogue and the opponents are NPCs. Obviously, any character - including NPCs - can use stealth, and the same rules would typically apply (barring specific rules overrideing the general rules given here.) Feel free to comment on either "why this doesn't match the RAW/RAI" - although I don't feel obligated to adhere to the RAW, I do prefer to conform as far as possible without sacrificing my own 'vision' as well as "why this will lead to problems X, Y and Z" in play.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">New Concepts<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Passive Stealth. [HR] This is the sum of 10 + the rogue's stealth roll modifier. This is used to determine the outcome of perception checks taken during the opponent's turn. [/HR][HR] [*]Hiding. [HR] Hiding is a state that can be entered into via stealth and can be maintained during other characters turns; [/HR][HR]while hiding, a rogue uses her passive stealth to oppose perception checks (active or passive). Any non-stealthy action, including but not limited to movement or attacks, will automatically break hiding, although attacks made from a hidden state benefit from combat advantage. [/hr][/hr]</li> </ul>[HR][HR] [*]A rogue must have cover or concealment to attempt a stealthy action or to hide. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[Clarification] Allies do not provide cover for movement (if you are moving, you cannot remain hidden behind an ally). Allies can provide cover for other actions, including attacks (however, see below).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dim lighting provides sufficient concealment for both stealth and hiding versus creatures with normal vision. Dim lighting provides no cover or concealment versus creatures with darkvision. [Clarification] The region which lies near, but outside of, an area of bright light - such as the radius of a torches illumination - is assumed to be dim lighting. [HR] Against creatures with low-light vision, Dim lighting provides sufficient concealment to hide motionlessly, but not to take stealthy actions.[/HR][HR] [/hr]</li> </ul>[HR] [*]Detection of a hiding/stealthy rogue's location with perception checks: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stealth checks made as part of the rogue's actions are opposed by the opponent's passive perception score.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Active Perception Checks: [HR Clarification of conflicting rules] A minor action will allow an NPC (or a PC) to check a specific area for a hiding rogue. A standard action will allow a character to scan the entire visible area for hiding rogues. When your opponent is already aware of the rogue's presence (for example, trying to regain stealth following an attack), stealth checks are opposed by a free action active perception check. </li> </ul>[*]If an opponent fails to locate the hiding rogue and/or cannot see the character due to superior cover or total concealment, they can still attempt to attack the rogue's square using the Targeting What You Cannot See rules. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[Clarification] The opponent knows that there is a rogue hiding over there and wishes to attack her. If the rogue has less than superior cover or total concealment, the opponent can take an active perception check and look for her. If he is successful in spotting her, he can attack her (with the appropriate modifiers for the necessary cover and/or concealment for being hidden). If he cannot locate her, but he believes that he knows which square she is in OR if he does locate her but the player has superior concealment and/or total cover, the rules for Targeting What You Cannot See can be used to allow an attack.</li> </ul>[*]If the opponents are capable of communicating, they are assumed to point out the general location of any stealthy/hidden rogues. [HR Clarification] This will not automatically reveal the rogues location, but it will make the opponents aware of the rogue (thus preventing combat advantage). Any opponent may, on his next turn, take a standard action to look for the hiding rogue (thus allowing her to be targetted). Likewise the rogue may, on her turn, use stealth to move to a new location and if successful regain combat advantage. [*]Hiding: Successful hiding requires that the opponent not be already aware of the rogue's location (either because they could not observe her move to that location or because she succeeded in moving to that location stealthily) and it requires cover and concealment (as above). [HR] If [/HR][HR]the rogue is unobserved while initiating the 'hidden' state, no stealth check is necessary as the rogues passive stealth score is used to resolve later perception checks (the rogue is essentially 'taking 10' while hiding). [Clarification] If an opponent who formerly was denied a perception check moves so that it now eligible for a perception check (e.g. he enters the room where the rogue is hiding), the opponent's passive perception is compared to the rogue's passive stealth to determine whether or not the rogue is noticed. [*]Combat Advantage with Stealth: If an opponent is unaware of a rogue's location or presence, the rogue has combat advantage versus that opponent. Once an opponent is aware of the rogue's location, the rogue no longer has combat advantage, although combat advantage can be regained (see below). <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The rogue has combat advantage against any unaware opponent they can attack with either a ranged or melee weapon without moving from their hidden location. [Clarification] Additionally, a rogue may charge an opponent from hiding and attack with combat advantage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Following any movement by the rogue, unless that movement is part of a charge or qualifies for stealthy movement (i.e. the rogue has cover and concealment and the rogue succeeds in a stealth check) any and all opponents whose line of sight includes the rogue are aware of the rogues location. If those opponents are intelligent and capable of communication, the awareness is extended to all allies within range of that communication.  This prevents combat advantage on a following attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Following any attack by a stealthy or hidden rogue, any and all opponents whose line of sight includes the rogue and/or her target are made aware of her location and/or presence. If those opponents are intelligent and capable of communication, the awareness is extended to all allies within range of that communcation. [HR] Note: If the rogue and her target are not visible to any other opponents, and she successfully drops her target with her initial attack, she is considered to still be hidden from all other opponents (i.e. the target dies before it can call out and warn its allies.[/HR][HR] [*][Clarification] The simple presence of cover or concealment, combined with a successful stealth check is not sufficient to negate the opponents awareness of the rogue. They remain aware that there is a rogue over there and are sufficiently on guard against attack from that location to negate combat advantage. [*][HR] If the rogue returns to cover and/or concealment and successfully moves stealthily to a new location, when she attacks from this new location she will once again have combat advantage.[/HR][HR] Note: This functionally prevents multiple attacks with combat advantage while hiding behind party members. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">During the first round after the rogue's presence is revealed, this attempt to move to a new location must be made versus an active perception checks from those aware of the rogues presence, rather than a passive check as the opponents are now considered to be aware of the rogue.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the rogue does not reveal her presence on her next turn, later stealth checks are again made against passive perception checks (unless the opponent chooses to take a standard or minor action to search for the rogue).</li> </ul>[/hr][/hr]</li> </ul>[HR][HR] [/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr]</li> </ol>[HR][HR][HR][HR][HR][HR]Carl[/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr][/hr]</blockquote>

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