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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6648864" data-attributes="member: 7006">This whole thing is exactly why WotC made the stealth/hiding rules such as they did-- more open-ended and allowing for individual DM preferential adjudication.&nbsp; Because even when the 5E game seems fairly clear-cut in spelling out when you are allowed to hide in the most basic sense (out of line of sight, quiet, DEX/Stealth check vs Passive Perception of anyone who might hear/notice the person hiding)... there are still players here disagreeing with that and ruling that hiding is not allowed (IE if someone is behind a pillar they can't hide because the viewer knows the person is there since there's nowhere they can move.)If even things like that are getting DMs to disagree when hiding is or isn't allowed at their table... no amount of absolutely concise 100% cover every bases set of game rules language is going to cut it.&nbsp; Players are still going to decide that it doesn't matter if the PC successfully hid via the &quot;game rules&quot;... they are going to take their understanding and visualization of the world at large and allow or disallow it on their own interpretation.&nbsp; Just like this case of the halfling.&nbsp; Game rules say the halfling is allowed to make DEX/Stralth checks to hide behind larger creatures... some DMs are still saying no they can't because it &quot;doesn't make sense&quot; (or whatever their own interpretive explanation is.)And thus... WotC just saved everyone the time and said &quot;Here are some basic game rules that you can use to determine stealth if you want to... but in every case we're leaving it up to the DM... because quite frankly it doesn't matter what we write, every DM is going to make up their own decisions on whether they allow their players to hide anyway.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6648864, member: 7006"] This whole thing is exactly why WotC made the stealth/hiding rules such as they did-- more open-ended and allowing for individual DM preferential adjudication. Because even when the 5E game seems fairly clear-cut in spelling out when you are allowed to hide in the most basic sense (out of line of sight, quiet, DEX/Stealth check vs Passive Perception of anyone who might hear/notice the person hiding)... there are still players here disagreeing with that and ruling that hiding is not allowed (IE if someone is behind a pillar they can't hide because the viewer knows the person is there since there's nowhere they can move.) If even things like that are getting DMs to disagree when hiding is or isn't allowed at their table... no amount of absolutely concise 100% cover every bases set of game rules language is going to cut it. Players are still going to decide that it doesn't matter if the PC successfully hid via the "game rules"... they are going to take their understanding and visualization of the world at large and allow or disallow it on their own interpretation. Just like this case of the halfling. Game rules say the halfling is allowed to make DEX/Stralth checks to hide behind larger creatures... some DMs are still saying no they can't because it "doesn't make sense" (or whatever their own interpretive explanation is.) And thus... WotC just saved everyone the time and said "Here are some basic game rules that you can use to determine stealth if you want to... but in every case we're leaving it up to the DM... because quite frankly it doesn't matter what we write, every DM is going to make up their own decisions on whether they allow their players to hide anyway." [/QUOTE]

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