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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 4399718" data-attributes="member: 71699">That's an interesting distinction, and one I'm inclined to agree with. It meshes with some other considerations too.&nbsp;&nbsp;Unfortunately, yes. By RAW if you made the check later, but wanted to count the hiding sooner, you end up potentially rewinding time, and more than once, to resolve some cases.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;What you say is of course correct by RAW, my fear is more the trouble that makes in game. I imagine some groups like a Rainbow 6 style of combat, with very precise moves. I've never DM'd like that: my groups like it fast and loose, and heroic feeling. This close attention to precise position doesn't work so well for me or my players; it's not demanded by RAW, so I wanted to see if it can be elided. Unfortunately doing so leads to other problems.&nbsp;Thank you for this detailed input! &nbsp;-vk</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 4399718, member: 71699"] That's an interesting distinction, and one I'm inclined to agree with. It meshes with some other considerations too. Unfortunately, yes. By RAW if you made the check later, but wanted to count the hiding sooner, you end up potentially rewinding time, and more than once, to resolve some cases. What you say is of course correct by RAW, my fear is more the trouble that makes in game. I imagine some groups like a Rainbow 6 style of combat, with very precise moves. I've never DM'd like that: my groups like it fast and loose, and heroic feeling. This close attention to precise position doesn't work so well for me or my players; it's not demanded by RAW, so I wanted to see if it can be elided. Unfortunately doing so leads to other problems. Thank you for this detailed input! -vk [/QUOTE]

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