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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Paul Strack" data-source="post: 4402012" data-attributes="member: 71340">I happen to agree with you. My example above was pointing problems that result from a simple one-tier interpretation of hidden.I believe that the rules imply two levels of hiding, not one.Lesser Hidden) You are simply hidden from view.Greater Hidden) You are hidden and your location is not known.I think all the problems with the Stealth originate in confusing these two states. In my example above (<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4400181&postcount=11" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4400181&postcount=11</a>) I think Rogue A has the Greater Hidden status but Rogue B only has the Lesser Hidden status.Here is how I break it down:Lesser HiddenBenefits: Combat Advantage against your target.Requirements: Normal Cover or Concealment and a Stealth check that beats your target's Perception.Notes: Because the Lesser Hidden benefit only applies offensively, there is no point in making your stealth check until right before you make your attack.Greater HiddenBenefits: Combat Advantage and protected by Targeting What You Can't See (TWYCS)Requirements: Superior Cover or Total Concealment, movement from your last known position and a Stealth check that beats the Perception of all your enemies.Justifications (all in my opinion):1) You need Superior Cover or Total Concealment because that is the only section of the Stealth rules that describe TWYCS-type benefits.2) You need to have moved from your last known location because TWYCS only helps you if your enemy must guess which square you are in.3) You need to beat all your enemies because if any one of them knows your location square, he can reveal it to his allies as a Free Action. Furthermore, if any opponent spots you, he can immediately reveal your location to all his allies, again as a Free Action.Notes: This is the only level of hidden that can be used defensively and the only one that you really need to track as a lasting effect. Furthermore, since you have to beat all your enemies to get this level of hidden, you can treat it as a simple status and not bother to track which enemies you are and are not hidden from (you must be hidden from all to benefit from TWYCS).</blockquote>

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