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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aimian_Silverflash" data-source="post: 6543363" data-attributes="member: 6787918">First off, I'd like to be clear here: I'm not talking about casting a fireball on someone from stealth without them knowing where the spell came from, or blasting someone with phantasmal killer in a crowded bar without the recipient having any clue who is blasting them. That would clearly be overpowered. Those scenarios involve initiative rolls, and all the rules for combat. And the moment we start talking about initiative rolls, I would indeed be talking about needing to be a Sorcerer with Subtle Spell.What I'm talking about here is casting an innocuous spell, out of combat, such that people around you don't clearly notice that you're casting a spell. "These aren't the droids you're looking for..." says Obiwan, with a subtle wave of his hand. That sort of thing.I adamantly disagree with anyone that states this is an ability exclusively for sorcerers with subtle spell. Sorcerers will for sure be the absolute best at it, and a sorcerer doing using subtle spell shouldn't even need to make a roll, IMHO. But that's like saying I can't go swimming in a lake because there's a guy out there riding a jetski. They are similar, but they are most definitely mutually exclusive. Plus, not only is this absolutely no fun, it's unrealistic.As long as a GM is careful, I don't think it's something that takes away from Sorcerers either. And that's exactly the sort of judgment call I was looking for here, basically I'm asking what would other GMs let their players get away with here. And I definitely got some good guidance. Thanks.After Reading all the comments, I'm of the opinion of letting them try it with a stealth/slight of hand/deception check, depending on what they are trying to do. But like any skill check, it's my job as a DM to adjust the degree of difficulty, depending on the conditions.If it's a loud, crowded tavern? Chances are nobody is going to notice you casting a Friends cantrip on the bartender, with a slight of hand roll vs. passive perception.But if you're trying to cast Charm Person on the Lieutenant of the city gates while 6 other soldiers have crossbows trained on your party, you're talking about a stealth roll with disadvantage vs. active perception rolls for all 6 soldiers, and probably initiative rolls if it's failed. I rarely flat out say "NO!" to players trying to be creative. That's no way to run a game people! It's a lot better to give them a minimal chance at success, and let them make the choice of if they want to risk it. -Plus it makes the game a lot more fun when they try those sorts of things and fail. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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