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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4032356" data-attributes="member: 710">I think the 4E system (as well as the 3.x one, in those cases it worked) had one critical advantage about most other systems: They give you guidelines that allow you to determine how challenging a monster will be for the party. In my experience, that can be one of the worst gaping holes of a system. I remember we once played a session of the new Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The adventure culminated in us having to go against a Demon. Interestingly enough, the Demon was weak sauce compared to the damn cultists protecting and summoning him. The Cultist carried armor and dealt hefty damage. The Demon did not wear armor (I don't remember the damage, but I think it was okay), and that made it easy. That for me looked like a gaping hole in the system - the importance of armor was not accounted for in the monster and adventure design.3.x had a small error here: Outsiders didn't wear armor, but a lot of them - by their humanoid figures - would be able to wear them. But if you did that, there strong AC would become an unbeatable AC. Nothing in the CR system told you that this could happen.4Es approach to determining "challenge" gives you the "real" guideline to the question of degree of challenge. If you give the Pit Fiend a Full Plate +5 instead of his "fluff-only" Brest Plate, you'll see a change in numbers, and know that they're outside the expected values. Thanks to the guidelines, you can probably determine its level a lot better then you could the CR of a creature before...And that's the key point why the "gaping" hole can be closed. If you make stuff up, you have a baseline to compare to. You don't have to count on 4-8 years of D&D 4 DM experience (or plain superior intellect) to figure out whehter the monster you just created is CR 8 or CR 12. You compare to the baseline, and see where it will fit in. And then there's the opposite way - you know you need a group of monsters and NPCs for a 4th level party - use the guidelines, and choose the special abilities that seem appropriate for what you're going for. Or use the PC rules to build one of the NPCs (I guess at this level, it doesn't really matter yet which way you go...)</blockquote>

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