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<blockquote data-quote="billbo" data-source="post: 1012197" data-attributes="member: 12993">I think they'd have to stack, or else you make a Ranger/Rogue multiclass unplayable due to being underpowered.&nbsp; And I don't see what the big deal is about a 1 Rogue/1 Ranger having a +2d6 attack in the surprise round only.&nbsp; A regular rogue will have +2d6 in surprise, sneak, and flank attack sittuations in a couple of more rounds, anyway.The idea of a &quot;surprise attack&quot; can be further limited, however, to situations of genuine surprise. What we used to call &quot;complete surprise,&quot; back in the day.&nbsp; That is to say, real surprise, not just grabbing your sword a split second before your opponent.&nbsp; But sneaking-up-behind-someone-and-putting-the-kaibosh-on-them-before-they-know-you're-there sort of surprise.Actually, I think the rules really ought to say that EVERYONE gets +1d6 in such situations.&nbsp; EVERYONE.&nbsp; I mean, if you sneak up on someone, they're not even defending themselves as per usual; so a longsword should do more damage than the normal 1d8.&nbsp; That 1d8 is based on the defender actually defending.&nbsp; If he's not defending, but just sitting there presenting his head like a ripe melon, there ought to be some bonus damage.&nbsp; (Maybe just an automatic critical in such situations...?)And then Rangers (and Rogues) would just add to that bonus.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="billbo, post: 1012197, member: 12993"] I think they'd have to stack, or else you make a Ranger/Rogue multiclass unplayable due to being underpowered. And I don't see what the big deal is about a 1 Rogue/1 Ranger having a +2d6 attack in the surprise round only. A regular rogue will have +2d6 in surprise, sneak, and flank attack sittuations in a couple of more rounds, anyway. The idea of a "surprise attack" can be further limited, however, to situations of genuine surprise. What we used to call "complete surprise," back in the day. That is to say, real surprise, not just grabbing your sword a split second before your opponent. But sneaking-up-behind-someone-and-putting-the-kaibosh-on-them-before-they-know-you're-there sort of surprise. Actually, I think the rules really ought to say that EVERYONE gets +1d6 in such situations. EVERYONE. I mean, if you sneak up on someone, they're not even defending themselves as per usual; so a longsword should do more damage than the normal 1d8. That 1d8 is based on the defender actually defending. If he's not defending, but just sitting there presenting his head like a ripe melon, there ought to be some bonus damage. (Maybe just an automatic critical in such situations...?) And then Rangers (and Rogues) would just add to that bonus. [/QUOTE]

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