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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeffrie" data-source="post: 5339607" data-attributes="member: 93465">This is about my third try at this. Please comment on anything and everything.  The goal here is for me to have fun building a character I will probably never get to play, but I’ve always wanted to. This is nearly my all time favorite character concept; an adventurer who could go alone many places and be ok, often because he isn’t fighting. He makes his destiny by his wits, and that includes being both careful, and detached. His goal is to be advisor to multiple powers, usually undercover of multiple identities.   On the list of what I hope to accomplish:  High skill points, particularly in social skills. Bardic Knowledge is a must. The ability to combine BK with Divination is a shortcut to treasure. Disguise of all sorts, and of course the non detection to go with it. Wizard at 17th lvl caster, Divination –Domain I think. Cleric at 15th lvl caster, or close as possible. Perhaps Trickery and Oracle Domains. I thought about Druid here. I would still consider it if advised, but the character concept is not really summon monsters and slug it out in front of the castle. Ability to use spontaneous casting for quite a few spells, but lose as little access as possible to the spell lists.  Of course, this is exactly the kind of thought that the Lyrist is designed for. Yes I’ve read several Lyrist Handbooks, Druid Handbooks, and Theurge Handbooks. I’m getting fairly close, but would like help editing the character before I invest work in dead ends.  My philosophy about Character Optimization; CO is fun, and folks are going to do it. I read someone say that the easiest way to balance was to allow everything by RAW, but limit the wizards to spells from just the core books and one other. Of course a few things are broken. I believe that the persist spell, as well as the factotum inspiration font, are broken, I just limit those with ‘x per y’ formulas and they work.   Anyway, I try to always have a RAW or a reference, but I don’t want to make the post too cluttered with notes that might not be used. Here are the last few builds I’ve looked at, loosely in order of preference.  Rouge2/Cloistered Cleric1/Wizard2/Mystic Theurge4/PARAGNOSTIC APOSTLE1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10PRO; 17th lvl caster Wizard, 15th lvl caster Cleric, 4 domains, Bardic Knowledge 13th lvl, Bardic Music 10th lvl, 0 Prerequisite FeatsCON; Loses Heavy Armor, Less Skills than hoped for.  Rouge2/Bard1/Wizard2/Mystic Theurge5 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10PRO; 17th lvl Wizard, 16th lvl Bard, etc, 0 Prerequisite FeatsCON; Lots of overlap with Wizard/Bard lists even though Zone of Silence and Modify Memory rock.  Bard1/Cleric1/Wizard3/Mystic Theurge4/ Initiate of Draconic Mysteries1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 10PRO; 17th lvl Wizard, 15th lvl Cleric, 11th Bard, Full Plate Casting, CON; IoDM needs 3 Feats: Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack  Bard1/Cleric1/Wizard1/Mystic Theurge5/SpellDancer2/ Fochlucan Lyrist 10PRO; 17th lvl Wizard AND ClericCON; SD is a 3.0 class, needs 4 Feats: Combat Casting, Endurance, Mobility, and Dodge.   HUMAN MIDDLE-AGED, TRUE NEUTRAL, 32 POINT (I want to go half elf, but the extra feat is so tempting).  All, or most, of these builds depend on the Bardic Tutelage regional background giving Druidic as a language; the assumption that “identical” means identical in the case of lore/bardic knowledge, and a Cust Serv ruling saying ‘a heightened spell level counts as a heightened spell level’. <a href="http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ask/20080603a" target="_blank">[FONT=&quot][/FONT]</a>[FONT=&quot]<a href="http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ask/20080603a" target="_blank">http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ask/20080603a</a>[/FONT]. Though these are a little loose, at least they all have a cost. I do not think a ring of evasion, or torturing a druid, are acceptable paths to the build.   My next step is to actually count the Prereq’s for skills. Able Learner should take care of it, though I haven’t actually counted them out. Did I hear someone say they have an xcel base character builder?  Comments are more than welcome. To come are choices (mostly researched already) on skills, skill tricks, feats, and alterative class features or substitution levels.</blockquote>

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