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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2070941" data-attributes="member: 3146">Well, I'd disagree about the traps. The challenge with traps is not generally finding them. Rather, it's disabling them. So, even if you take 20 on the search, it doesn't negate the challenge and risk of the trap.As for the other items--clues, secret doors, hidden treasure, etc they're not necessarily pointless if they aren't found. For instance, in one adventure I ran recently, a scarlet brotherhood assassin fled through a secret door. No PC was in the room to see him work it so the difference between finding it immediately and finding it in ten rounds or so was the difference between catching him and not catching him. With clues, Unless they have a shield spell up now but won't 2-3 minutes later. Unless they have bull's strength now but won't 2-3 minutes later. Etc, etc. One good method for keeping take 20 actions to reasonable levels is to keep careful track of spell durations. The difference between being buffed to the 9s and unbuffed can be the difference between a cakewalk and a TPK in D&D. A party that realizes this is generally willing to take some risks.... Doing this means avoiding both the "ok, sure, you've still got shield up even after doing a take 20 search on 10 squares" and the "the battle's over; all of your minute per level spells go away" errors. The first removes one of the costs of taking 20. The second removes the benefit of moving quickly.There's a big difference between "The NPCS know we're here" and "The NPCs have had the opportunity to come up with a good plan, drink all their potions, cast all their buff spells, and attack us en masse/ set up a strong point, prebuff with minute per level spells, send some bait to lure us into the trap, and make a contingency plan in case we don't take the bait.How about these:-There's a buyer for the mcguffin who is in town until tomorrow. (Maybe he has pressing business like a duel for which he wants the mcguffin). Get there too late and the Mcguffin is worthless. Oh, and it takes roughly half a day to get to the dungeon with the Mcguffin and half a day to get back. You can spend an extra three hours searching, but then you'll need to hustle and forced march if you want to make it back in time to sell it. (And, of course the ambush by the bandits who figured they'd let you get the Mcguffin and then take it from you occurs right next to town so if you search normally you're fine but if you took 20, you're probably exhausted).-You need to secure the embarrassing letters before the wedding. Don't get them in time and the princess will marry Prince Humperdink because she doesn't have the evidence of his true character.-The hippogriff bounty is only offered for one more week. After that, the government will take stock of the situation and evaluate whether it's worth continuing the bounty or whether their numbers are thinned enough that they no longer menace commerce and agriculture.-There's an important duel (maybe one of the PCs is in it). They need to gather materials for a sword. This requires exploring several locations, all of which are large enough that taking 20 is the difference between 2 hours and 2 days of searching. Since it takes one day per plus to enhance a sword, they can get a +2 sword (or +1 flaming) if they hurry, but are stuck with a +1 sword if they take 20.-The trial/execution is tomorrow and the PCs need to exonerate their ally by then. [Or it could be in hours, but that's a pretty darn harsh time frame].-There are two big fights in the dungeon and they're close enough together that minute/level spells will still be active if you hurry but they won't be if you don't.-The invincible guardians of doom will be away from the vault for one hour because the stellar conjunction negates their magic/the spell works for that long/that's how long the "entertainment" hired by the thieve's guild takes. You have that long to get in, out, and remove the evidence you were ever there.-The orcish reinforcements will be arriving in roughly two days. It will probably take you a day and a half to reach the fort/caves. You have to kill them all, destroy the fort/encampment, loot the place, rescue the prisoners, and be gone by the time the reinforcements arrive.-Two minutes after you win the first battle, I will release the hounds of doom who will pursue you. Tarry too long and they will catch you.-"It's a trap! Take this message to the general and warn him before he opens the vault of the abyss!"</blockquote>

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