Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 6706433" data-attributes="member: 5038">Just, because I have not seen it(among those optimizing for power or butt-kicking) and you have not seen it, it does not mean others have not.  It does not have to do be about combat effectiveness. The dictionary definition of optimization" is the selection of a best element (with regard to some criteria) from some set of available alternatives"If you roll ability scores randomly, and put your thief's best score in dex, because your highest score in dex provides bonuses to certain skills, that is optimization.One can optimize to be the best underwater basketweaver or pickpocket. What do they have to do with combat? If your criteria is a more well rounded character (e.g., a boy whom grew up a dirt farmer, was the best horse racer in his town, has some talent for chess, and joined a rebel army) , you can still optimize to best reflect that concept. You have added more objectives and have more choices to make,, but it is still optimization, because as soon as you are assigning resources to best meet a certain criteria  (whether one objective or multiple objectives), you are making a decision on certain choices as best vs other available choices. You just have added more trade-offs than if optimizing towards a single objective .  The only way to avoid any optimization at all is to roll everything randomly, use pre-gens, or assign things blindly.  This is why optimization is a continuum on an axis.  It is also why it is a tool to an end- which for many is power-gaming or butt-kicking, but is not the goal for everyone.  The problem is when certain players take it to an extreme that crosses an arbitrary threshold and/or for a purpose that is at odds with the playstyle of the DM and/or others in the groups- especially, if they refuse to adapt and/or are a jerk to the others at the table.Now, personally, I don't like heavy optimization for butt-kickers or powergamers (whom I define as playing for an emphasis on combat or character power respectively and thus heavy on their respective axis) nor do I like pre-planned builds.  I expect starting players to be a little more well-rounded and to reflect the culture/environment from which they are grew up (pre-defined in the setting),grounded in the setting, and take a more organic approach to growth.  In 3e it meant a lot of power and combat optimization guide choices are going to be shut down/unavailable by what I choose to include, exclude, or alter in the setting.   The same will be in true in 5e(one reason that when I run 5e, I will be instituting skill points).However, I am not going to ignore that optimizing is on a continuum or that it is limited to power gaming and/or butt-kicking, but is rather a tool for meeting a concept when making choices among various alternatives</blockquote>

Verification