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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5684139" data-attributes="member: 54877">I put the distinction slightly elsewhere. It is not so much your type of goal that matters or how you go about it, as how wedded you are to your goal being honored by the players. As far as I'm concerned, good manipulation is from a DM is like a thermostat. Things are getting a little too cool. You can see attention wavering. So you dial the thermostat up a bit. Now, there are good chances (if the DM has any clue at all), that this will make it hot enough to cause a change in interest. And of course the DM had some idea what might happen when suddenly appearing are the Hated Man-eating Trolls of the Mucky Swamp at the Gates of the Home.  But perhaps the players are really enjoying talking to the mayor and want to do that for a bit more. A good DM sees that, gives them some more time, then edges up the thermostat another notch. A bad DM decides that they've had enough time, and skips the thermostat altogether, setting fire to the house in a way that can't be ignored. Note, I'm not saying that the DM can't do extreme things. It is intent and paying attention to their reactions that matter. Extreme things because you think the players will enjoy them are good--even if those extreme things are narrative hooks that you think might get a bite. Extreme things because you want to control what they are doing are not. That's taking the hook and sticking it into their mouths. No bait for you! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> So I don't have any problem with incremental adjustments that prod the players towards certain narrative objectives--especially if those objectives are consistent with what everyone knowingly and wilingly signed on for at the start of the campaign. Gonna have a campaign about eventually slaying the great dragon that embodies a theme of extreme greed--then eventually ya gots to put the dragon on stage in all his greedy glory. The incremental adjustments are what let you do this while still leaving the ultimate control in the players' hands.</blockquote>

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